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I received an e-mail from Steve who had installed an Elite/Spacy
ch 250 Honda motor into his CH125 scooter. Given that the original 125
had a little less than 11 horsepower and the 250 a little less than 20,
the boost in power would be significant. I would imagine the performance
would even be better than a stock 250 due to the lesser weight of the 125
scooter. As well as the engine transplant, Steve lengthened the wheelbase
by about 6 inches. Heres what Steve had to say:
"........ having read your ideas for tuning the engine of your
Elite, I thought you might be
interested to hear how i made my Spacy go faster, which i achieved
by substituting a CH250 engine in place of the 125 motor. Don't worry the
swap is easier than you think (if you want proof check the part number
for the main engine pivot bolt for the CH125/150 and CH250 you'll find
they're the same part number)- the 125 motor had seized solid and I couldn't
replace or repair it.
........mine is a custom project which, apart from the engine
swap, has a 6" chassis extension to allow a "ghetto blaster" to be mounted/played.......
And later after I fired off an e-mail with questions:
..........your question on the frame lengthening, is interesting
as the other reason i did this is the same as yours (I'm 6'4") and my method
was to cut the main frame tube just in front of the engine mounting/rear
subframe "box" area (this means you only have to cut and lengthen the floor
board side rails - quite an easy form to fabricate in sheet steel) and
welded into place a "spigotted" (the spigots I turned were each 1/2 the
length of the extension and of a moderate interferance fit - more details
soon) piece of thick wall steel tube, and light gauge steel channel section
strips running from the front floorboard support brackets to the rear brackets
to provide fixing and support to the piece of sheet plastic used for the
floorboard. (* see note below)
As far as fitting the 250 motor in the
chassis, you realise that if you do this you'll lose the centre stand (not
a great hardship, if you consider your top speed will be an indicated 80
MPH - my motor is in pieces at the moment - i'm tuning it to FES 250 spec
and beyond (even better top speed !!!). You'll need to use the 250 CDI
unit but the rectifier is optional (mines the 125 unit and seems to work
ok) and to start with use the carb from the 250 as well. I forgot to mention
in my last e-mail that although this swap can be done retaining the footboard
mounted rear brake I've also converted mine to a handlebar mounted
rear brake lever so as to have a completely clear floor (good for carrying
25 litre barrels of oil etc.)"
I wrote Steven back to ask :
......I took a closer look at the 125 frame the other day after reading
your letter. The spot where
you chose to extend it makes a lot of sense as it leaves a number of
spots to attach the front
part of the frame( to a jig) to keep the frame aligned during the extension.
I suspect that
making up a jig to keep everything in alignment is going to be the
real work.
..... What did you use to jig it up or did you incorporate something
into the spigot
that was self-aligning? I originally thought of marking the top of
the frame tube with a
longtitudinal cut before cutting and then matching the mark up
with a corresponding mark
running from one end of the spigot to the other........
......I used a "rough & ready" method of using the top of
the steering stem tube as my datum point and then using string took measurements
to the engine swinging spindle and rear footboard mounting brackets adjusting
the frame until measurements "side to side" were equal, tack welded then
checked measurements again then finally finish welded, this has worked
ok for me.
As far as the tuning work goes I've just fitted the **fes
pistoned cylinder (i've put a layer of modelling clay on the crown to measure
clearances - piston to head, valves to piston etc.) and head onto the motor
to trial fit and i have noticed that the fes piston crown is not uniformally
raised all over the "crown" (it's less raised where the spark plug area
is on the **fes, but this is on the wrong side for the ch/cn motor - this
may or may not be a problem....
note:
* modifications to the frame could affect safety and should
only be attempted by professionals experienced with all aspects of modifying
motorcycle frames. A friend and I built mini bikes in high school and he
brazed his frame instead of welding it. It came apart while the bike was
racing down a hill. Not a pretty sight but a good lesson for those contemplating
a quick and dirty frame chop. While the concept is straightforward, the
execution demands experience and skill.)
** fes 250 is the Honda foresight 250cc scooter
Nov/2001
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I've pried the motor out of my 1985 CH250 and started eyeballing the 1984
CH125 frame for what I have to do to make it fit. On my scooters, the engine
hanging assembly is not the same but the 125's mounting assembly should
accept the 250 motor. The wiring looks like it should just plug in with
a couple of exceptions. My 125 didn't come with a regulator/rectifier.
The 1984 125 had a rectifier coupling unlike all later CH/CN scooters.
The 1984 125 regulator had a single 6 pin connector whereas later
scooters all had two separate connectors. I do have a 1989
wiring harness that I can use to splice into mine so the rectifier from
the 250 can be just "plugged in". If you have a later ch125/150 you should
be OK using the stock regulator or the 250 regulator as the connectors
should be identical. The rectifier, cdi unit from the 250 should fit into
the same mounting as the 125.
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The engine won't fit into the frame with the centre kickstand. The kickstand
mount has to be removed all the way back to the main frame "box". I'm still
having trouble fitting the 250 shocks as the motor still doesn't drop low
enough. The 125/150 shocks are shorter and fit. They don't look as robust
as the 250 shocks and I only have one shock from the 125 that fits the
250 engine configuration so I'll try and think of a way to fit the 250
shocks. While removing the centre stand mount doesn't appear to affect
the frames integrity, the 125 frame is not nearly as solid as the 250 frame
so compromising the 125s frame further is not an option; if anything I'd
like to strengthen it. This whole cut and fit method could be avoided if
an engine hanger 2 inches longer than stock was fabricated. The radiator
hoses on the 250 were larger than the 125/150 so an adapter is going to
have to be made to mate the two different sizes; either that or the 250
cooling system fitted to the 125. The later 150 frames had additional reinforcement
around the frame uprights where the engine hanger assembly |
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