Help fight AIDS and poverty
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Sign The One Declaration and maybe we can convince George to give a bit more to stop world AIDS and poverty. www.one.org |
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This is the end of the Blog as you know it ... and you feel fine.
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20 Comments:
Having anyone sign your little petition will do nothing to stop Cheney and his meat puppet George from doing anything.
... I am a Canadian, and prefer to sit back and watch America eat itself.
Hmmmm.....well I'm not pro-George either, nor do I agree with much of what the U.S. government does. But I can't say that I'm in favor of Canada's big-government system either.
That said, I just don't think it's the function of ANY federal government to be directly involved in health care or poverty issues.
Of course it would be nice if we could depend on voluntary acts of charity to solve these problems, but history indicates that this is not likely either. Thus I would support the idea of having a majority vote on these issues on more local government levels (ie, states and counties) giving more control to the people of those regions on how they want to deal assist people who need help.
The role of the federal government, in my opinion should be to operate the FBI and CIA(properly), military to protect from foreign invaders and a supreme court to resolve any constitutional violations that may occur in the justice system on lower levels.
As for global responsibility, I'm in favor of supporting volunteer work, charitable contributions, and education in struggling countries, rather than to trust any big government to properly and efficiently provide the solutions.
I guess I would be contradicting myself to oppose George for sticking his nose too much in Iraq, yet expect him to go out and somehow solve world aids and poverty.
And even if a petition got his attention, would it be constitutional for him to use tax-payer's money to stop world aids and poverty without voter consent? And if called to vote on such an issue, my vote would reflect my preference to donate that money to a global charitable establishment, that I trust a lot more than the government.
Whether or not people agree with various religious doctrines (and I certainly respect one's right to disagree on reliigous ideology), the fact remains that many religious organizations (as well as non-religious), have established charitable operations all over the world, including the building and operation of schools in third world countries, providing food, medicine, clothing and even children's toys, providing education on disease control, building water wells, hygiene, and agriculture etc etc. etc.
While it is true that voluntary contributions of money and time are not solving every problem everywhere, I think I would rather send my money to a charity of my choice than to George. Thus I don't think I'll ask him to take on this costly responsibility.
Interesting debate though. Always good to bring up stuff that get's people talking and thinking.
Wow dave very constructive thinking on your part. I enjoyed reading Angie's response as I felt it gave me a lot to think about. I don't know if you looked at the website (i just glanced at a few things) but I understood that the petition was more than just asking the U.S. to give money. It has to do with cancelling debts owed by some of the world's poorest countries and reforming trade. This is a quote I took from the site..."
What is The ONE Campaign?
ONE is a new effort by Americans to rally Americans – ONE by ONE – to fight the emergency of global AIDS and extreme poverty. The ONE Campaign is engaging Americans through a diverse coalition of faith-based and anti-poverty organizers to show the steps people can take, ONE by ONE, to fight global AIDS and poverty."
Okay, here's the problem I have with this type of movement.
What kind of guarantee do I have that this money isn't just going into the hands of the next Robert Mugabi?
The problem with federal level funding of third world countries is that we don't know where the money lands.
The other side, that being debt forgiveness, is even scarier in certain regions, because it allows warlords to focus on buying more weapons rather than servicing their debt.
We simply don't know how funds are being used in these countries. It's fine for Bob Geldof to say give these people more money, but where is the due diligence required? Who follows up on all the money trails to make sure that this money is turned into food and infrastructure. Sure as hell it's not Bob. He's in the pub and thinking about next year's rally 10 minutes after the G8 summit shuts down (and he gets his 15 minutes on CNN).
I would prefer to give the money to Oxfam or Unicef, rather than directly to the countries. At least then, I can look into exactly what my money is doing.
If it gets joe/jane schmo thinking about donating their money to a relief organization rather than spending it on their 200th Abercrombie t-shirt then it's probably a good thing. Call me naive but maybe it's raising awareness.
Yes, I'll admit that if you're buying Abercrombie you have problems.
Here's a crazy idea...
Solve poverty in your own country, and then worry about the Africans.
If we gave half a shit about the homeless and poor in our own countries, perhaps we could properly amass our resources and make a real difference in the world.
I believe it was Moses who said," Getteth thine own shit together, lest ye be left unable to shovel thine neighbors shit for him."
Seriously, if north americans aren't motivated to give to a worthy cause unless they have some half-wit actor, or musician telling them it's a good thing, then that is the problem.
I am all for raising awareness. Universally.
Awareness of all things.
Look around, people need help.
Act locally, think globally.
It's not about grand acts of generosity, it's the small things that eventually add up.
When I think about Africa, in general, I have sympathy for their plight - but no more than I have for the mentally ill living on the streets of Vancouver, or the families of working poor living paycheck to paycheck.
I think overall the Africa issue is an act of conspicious charity - I like the idea of caring, I just disagree on the best method.
I don't think this was only aimed at African nations. I believe it was world poverty but I might be wrong. I agree that we need to focus on the poverty in our own country. It's amazing to me how m any people go to bed hungry in what is considered the "greatest country in the world" Like I said maybe it will help raise some awareness and get some aid to where it is needed.
Hey Shea, email me at yousuckrick@rickberes.com and I can invite you properly to post here.
If ya' want.
How much did you donate to charity last year?
And don't think you can count the forced 10% you give to the church as charity.
They need money like I need more attitude.
Hmmm... How Much...
1k... 2k... 5k... maybe more I hope
People right in your community need help right now.
One.org, to me seems like a big media driven reason for celebs and musicians to feel like they are doing their part, and if they truly are, good for them. Standing in front of a camera for 20 minutes and delivering a script or hitting the stage when you have nothing else on your schedule, and calling it charity work, doesn't cut it.
Many of the people involved in this particular charity are probably really about what they say they are. Others, I am skeptical. Some countries are prepared to have their debt forgiven. They have relatively stable political regimes. Others are exactly what Rick so rightly fears, petty thieves and bullies who have armies behind them and want to use their money for dramatic, nefarious, and dastardly purposes.
If you check into all of the various charities involved. There are a lot of pretty right wing Christian and political groups in there with very recognized and worthwhile charities. That is a major concern. Another concern is what If the country is predominantly Muslim or Buddhist? Or if their chosen form of government does not conform to “America’s” standard.
Just something to think about.
D
" How much did you donate to charity last year?
And don't think you can count the forced 10% you give to the church as charity.
They need money like I need more attitude."
Who was this question directed at Dave? How much did you donate to charity last year? I'm not going to get into a religious debate with you about tithing/fast offerings and where the money ends up. Not all members of the church think tithing is all they need to contribute toward charities. Stereotypes sure save time don't they?
It's true that the 10% tithing may not be used primarily for global charity, but if you check the contribution slip you will notice a section where you can donate specifically to "humanitarian aid". My grandmother is currently serving a humanitarian aid mission, and I have learned that the church has such missionaries in almost all parts of the world and contributes an amazing amount of charitable services, as described in my previos posting. They are also there helping with every major distaster (tsunami for example). I had no idea it was so extensive, but most people don't. I respect one's right not to believe in the religion, but I think it's reasonable to trust the LDS organizition, as well as the organizations Rick mentioned, with my money. Fast offerings (also not part of the 10%) go directly to church welfare which in turn feeds people all over the world and locally. I would rather use this type of method than the government who has no accountability.
United Way
$5750
Bravo Dave for your generous, non forced, contributions to charity. Next time the Bishop puts a gun to my head while I write my tithing check I'll think of you and how you give your money of your own free will.
Probably what Dave means by "forced" is that a church member will lose their temple recommend if they confess that they don't pay their tithing.
But the purpose of tithing and it's application to temple worthiness is a religious debate that I won't get into right now.
On the other hand, I have yet to have anyone inquire as to whether I have contributed to the humanitarian aid fund, or made a fast offering. These contributions are strictly your own business. It's completely private and does not affect one's temple-recommend worthiness, which qualifies this as truly voluntary under anyone's definition.
I also forgot to mention that LDS humanitarian aid missionaries are NON-proselyting and NOT politically motivated. Also they receive no compensation, and travelling and living expenses come out of their own pockets.
My parents have been living in the United Arab Emirates for a few years, and I will agree that when a culture is not based on judeo-Christian values, Christians and Americans should be respectful and not impose on the local customs and beliefs in those countries. Providing service should just be for the sake of helping other people.
An example of what can be done is that my Dad plans to sign up to provide free medical care in third world countries after he retires. My Grandmother cleans up donated dolls, mends doll clothes, dresses the dolls and makes blankets for them to be sent out to children who would otherwise never own a toy.
There are also many retired empty-nesters that live in poor countries for a year or more at a time to teach their skills in agriculture, irrigation, literacy, computers, hygeine and disease control etc.
The humanitarian aid fund pays for supplies that are needed above and beyond the donations of food, clothing, computers, books and toys etc. and for the shipping of these supplies to all areas of the world on a regular basis.
Of course there are many good and worthy private charities, if the LDS church is not a personal preference.
I just maintain that one should make sure they do their research on where your money is going when you support (or reject) a cause.
I'm no economic expect, but I believe debt cancellation for other countries would cost us tax-payers in the form of more interest owed to our own international creditors.
Anyhow, I just thought I would try to clarify a few facts. But I thought this was going to be more of a political debate, so I will just conclude by saying that it's always good to raise awareness and concern, I just don't feel like the federal government can possibly fight world aids and poverty the way that a private charity can.
Oh yeah...party at Amy's tonight!!!!
Just wanted to clarify something of my own, I willingly contribute my own 10% to the church, no guns necessary, however, I have spoken with several bishops and there are special circumstances where one does not HAVE to pay tithing to be able to have a Temple Recommend. NO Guilt and No Judgement for those of you whose fingers are already starting to type a comment.
I also contribute to many other charities. Don't feel the need to pull out receipts and actually post a number.
I have just been observing as long as I could, and I feel like it somehow along the way went from Political, to some Personal and Religious Attacks.
OK
After reviewing this thread I want to make comments on everything…
Here goes
My first sentence I stand by entirely.
My second sentence… as an outside observer and after speaking to many Americans (some who have since moved to Canada) your freedom is being slowly taken away without your consent and without your knowledge. Fear and hatred is being used as a weapon to incite average Americans into a siege mentality. In the name of “America’s Fight Against Terrorism,” trade agreements are being ignored and countries are being financially squeezed into supporting the US. In fact, a country was illegally invaded on the off chance there might have been something going on that may or may not have been bad. Women, children and men have been slaughtered at alarming levels in both Iraq and Afghanistan by the US and it’s allies (Canada being one of them in Afghanistan).
Why? Oil…
OK
Nermal
I can say, I am more in favor of the Canadian government because they don’t have a policy of public fear and terror against Canadians or against citizens of other nations.
The Canadian government is not involved in Healthcare other than ensuring that there is “Universal Healthcare across the country” What that means, and to what level that is, ends up in individual provincial jurisdictions. Poverty can only be assuaged by people with deep pockets. The list starts off with the government, then moves on to large multinational corporations and then moves down to us. The deeper the pockets the more resources you have. What is lacking is the organizational willingness.
I am glad that you see your own contradiction in what you say. The Constitution only applies to Americans. Foreign policy is handled by the current administration which was voted in after a democratic election. When it comes to Foreign policy it’s pretty much “do whatever you can get away with, and you better back up what you say.” If the Bush administration had spent the money they have borrowed from China for their Iraqi venture on developing third world countries the world would be quite different today. Why do fighters for other causes hate America… Because Americans have made it so easy to. They have disrespected sovereign governments, boundaries and cultures.
What makes a terrorist? What would happen if someone bombed your kids school and you had to go and pick up their broken bodies? Then some smug Colonel on CNN called it “regrettable, but acceptable collateral damage in a time of war.” I don’t even need to ask you what you would do. Would you be right in your cause?
I do like your overall idea… That one person at a time can make a difference. That difference should be in bringing in a responsible government at an election.
Shea
I felt that was just a belittling attack.
Yes… I did look at the site in detail. I know the feel of a spin job when I see it. Quoting the site seemed even more absurd.
Rick
Exactly!!
Shea
More awareness is good. Misguided awareness is exactly that.
Rick
Yup!!
Shea
That is totally right
Rick
Shea… you really should become a regular poster on the site.
Dave
I derailed to topic when I allowed my disdain for the church and it's practices to taint a pretty hot political and social topic. Rich people trying to motivate regular people to ask unwilling people to change foreign policy that will reduce their power and influence.
A point I wanted to make was that as a former member, I always wrapped myself with this “social happy blanket” that, when I paid my offerings and tithing it was all going to help those less fortunate and further the kingdom.
From the outside looking in, I see there is good being done, selectively. I think instead of spending 500 million+ dollars renovating a couple of malls in downtown Salt Lake the church could be investing in projects to ensure basic long term housing in third world slums.
Since leaving the church, I felt the need to continue donating to charities that I feel help people in my own community. I also feel very ripped off for donating a huge wad of money that was and is being used inappropriately.
I feel donating to the church and a charity is different.
Shea
The question was directed at you. The one person who I felt was attacking me personally. You never did answer the question. Then there was a second attack, “Stereotypes sure save time don't they?”
Nermal
Good example of church people making the world a better place. Your grandmother is serving a mission that she is paying for. While the church is supporting some of her efforts by and large missionaries pay for the opportunity to go and help those in need. Which is in my opinion the best way to make a difference and set an example.
Me
Probably a smarmy way to respond but it got the point across.
Shea
Completely sarcastic response. Shea, the only thing I want you to think of when you are paying your tithing is this… What is this money REALLY going to be used for, and how do I feel about that?
Nermal
Another good response. It’s true… lobbying the US, or any other government for that matter, to stop world AIDS and forgive third world debt is a monumental wank. Actors and musicians trying to get people to do it, is even more of a wank.
Do something… anything… just don’t rely on a huge bureaucracy to make it happen.
Dar
I agree. A number can let people know your level of commitment to something. It’s like the widow throwing in her 2 cents or a rich guy giving a huge sum to a kids hospital. Everyone should give what they feel they can. It does not even have to be money. Time is, even more precious, They don’t usually give you a tax receipt for that either. I just urge everyone to give to something that you feel makes a difference. Know where that gift goes and if you can see it through to it’s end.
That is all I have to say
D
I hereby name Dave's last comment:
The-Mother-Of-All-Comments
I can't believe you didn't hit a character limit on that bad boy.
Dave I don't really feel the need to tell you or anyone how much money or time I donate to charity each year. I don't know if you've realized it yet but I don't really care what you think of me. I posted this topic very innocently. Thinking that it was a good thing to help those with AIDS and living in poverty. Appparently I'm not as schooled in the art of world politics as the rest of youl.
Ah...can you tell I love a good debate?
Dave, I agree with your statements on the American government. And yes, our freedoms are being insidiously eaten away. In fact, ironically enough, Mormon prophets also agree with you on that. I'm not one of those "we're number 1" Americans nor one of those "all is well with Zion" Mormons.
It's true that the constitution only applies to the United States, however it is my understanding that many modern democratic countries (including Canada) have fashioned their own constitutions after the United States and there are many similarities (but I haven't read them all I must confess).
The only reason it's worth mentioning in this cross-country debate is that I believe that certain human rights are universal whether or not a constitution or bill of rights supports this. Namely the right to protect and control one's body and property.
The government should be a hired employee of the people to protect our lives and property, simply because it would be too exausting to do so in an anarchist society. If we hand over too much responsibiity to a federal government (because we can't or won't solve our own social problems), we create exactly what you call it, a huge bureaucracy which will eventually take over too much of our freedom.
I guess when I am comparing the two countries, it has more to do with the philosophies they are "supposed" to be operating on. And in many ways I do think that our personal rights thus far in the U.S. are less infringed upon than in Canada. I guess what I am trying to say is that I believe that the general public is more empowered over their own lives here than they are in Canada, but you are right that the voting power is not being used as it should be, thanks to apathy and egocentric people who care more for their Abercrombie shirts, as Shea so accurately put it. So I understand your disdain for these foolish Americans.
As for the Canadian government, I still say too much is controlled on a federal level, which then screws the lesser populated western Canada, the situation with Alberta's oil being a fine example. Also the federal taxes there are ridiculous.
But I once was a proud Canadian and still am proud of Canada for many reasons, and I remember thinking all Americans were idiots too. But alas I have become a bit of a libertarian these days, at least on a federal level. Well, maybe you could call me more of a constitutionalist. But of course I agree that neither "constitutionalism" or Christianity (which U.S. political values were origionally founded upon) should be pushed on other countries by manipulation or force. To do so is a complete contradiction and totally hypocritical.
But back to focusing on our own country's affairs, we might be past our anarchy promoting days, but I think all of you might find libertarian philosophy and political ideology quite interesting at the very least.
Shea, the important thing is that you care about other people, and despite different opinions we know you had completely honorable intentions which I totally respect. As luck would have it you happened to push a hot button that got people talking, which I think is a good thing.
Dave, you are right that paying tithing and donating to charity are different. Tithing typically goes toward church buildings and supplies, generally for the benifit of all members. But I suppose what is needed to benifit "the kingdom" is a matter of opinion here, depending on your perspective. You could also argue that it is wrong for us to be living in comfortable houses, and spending money on hobbies when all a human family needs to physically survive is a one room shack with a wood stove and rice and beans three meals a day. (Think what a difference it would make to third world slums if we all did that and gave everything else away). So I'll support the Church's spending and the reasoning behind it, but I will respect your right to disagree on that.
But don't forget that the church IS investing in third world slums as well. In fact if you want 100% of your donation to go to people who need it (rather than have 90% of it go to administration and advertising) write your check to the LDS humanitarian aid fund even if you don't believe in the religious doctrine or pay one cent of tithing. It's a completely separate fund, and I don't think anyone can criticize how that particular fund is allocated.
But I guess you could argue that other private charities support jobs locally and thus decreases the unemployment problem.
Anyhow, that's my take on things....do I win the mother-of all-postings position now? And if any of you know something I don't and care to enlighten me, please do! I have learned more from debating with friends (and the reading that those debates motivated me to do) than from any teacher or textbook.
Just one more point to make........does anybody happen to know how much the church spends on church welfare and humanitarian aid as compared to buildings and renovation projects? Just curious if anybody has that financial data.
Also, while handing over cash or ensuring housing in third world slums is a good thing, I think the most effective strategy in fighting world poverty is donating time and knowledge.
First of all the organizing and preparing for the disbursment of donated goods takes time and organization, the more unpaid, volunteer labor the better. (And I wonder what the monetary value of second hand items donated and disbursed by the church adds up to)
But the ultimate goal here is to promote self-sufficiency. Sharing knowledge by teaching and demonstrating is going to be the best way to reach that goal. You could build somebody a new house....but wouldn't it be more valuable in the long run to show them how to use their resources, show them how to build a well, grow crops, read, control the spread of bacteria, create marketable products or job skills etc.
Can you put a dollar amount on these things? If time is more valuable than money, I wonder how many unpaid man-hours have been put in by members of the LDS church to help other people, as compared to other organizations. What are those man-hours worth? I would bet that this would make the expense of renovating a facility in Salt Lake seem a little less significant.
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