CHERRY CREEK CANADIANS

The Canadian Horse

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So you're looking to buy a
Canadian Horse?...


 

Somewhat like buying a car, looking for the "perfect" Canadian Horse can sometimes be an overwhelming experience...
 

The following are some tips and suggestions that we would like to offer to those who are looking for a Canadian Horse of their own.

Having traveled across Canada several times looking at many different horses at many different farms in many different locations, and in having looked hard and long while selecting our own horses, as well as being involved in the breeding side of the business now, we have found the following suggestions to be important and/or helpful to ourselves. Our hope is that by listing these, they might be of benefit to others. Please note, these are our own personal observations and suggestions, and may not reflect the opinions of others.

For ease of browsing, we have laid them out in a FAQ (frequently asked questions) format.

 

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 "I am a novice and I want to buy a Canadian Horse as I have heard they are perfect for a beginner.      OR
"I have heard that they are all quiet and so I think that any Canadian Horse should do for me."
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"Where should I go, and what sort of horse should I get? "
 
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First and foremost, the cardinal rule!  If you are a novice horse person, always bring an experienced horseperson with you, to go horse shopping!
 

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Especially if you are a novice with horses, be sure to go to a reputable breeder/seller. Have them show you more mature horses, that have had some training, and that ARE quiet (not all Canadians are!).
 

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If you are a novice, please do not go out and buy the first Canadian you see (especially if just a young untrained horse).  Almost inevitably, it will be too much horse for you! Sadly, and all too many times now, we have heard from novices who tell us, "I bought this nice, supposedly quiet and kind young Canadian from "so and so", however it has turned out to be too big and strong for me, and now I can't do anything with it.  I am intimidated by it,  so it is just sitting there out in the field.  What should I do?".
 

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These horses are too costly, and too rare to just become a "pasture ornament".  If you are a novice, please save yourself a lot of heartache and expense, get help, and be sure to buy a horse of appropriate size, age and training for yourself in the first place.
 

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If you go to a reputable breeder or seller, they will pride themselves on matching you with a particular horse suited to your ability.  They pride themselves on not just selling you anything to "make a quick sale". If a horse is not suited for you, a reputable breeder/seller will tell you this, and will refuse to sell you the horse. Don't be insulted by this, but rather take it as a sign that this is an honest individual to deal with, and one who truly has your best interests at heart. Instead of being discouraged by this, use it your advantage.  If that particular individual doesn't have anything to suit you, they may be willing to help you to find something that is more suitable to meet your needs elsewhere.


 

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"I am looking for a well trained gelding, "bomb-proof", 15.2 - 16 hh, 4 - 6 years old, and black of course!"
 
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First and foremost, it is important to keep in mind that the Canadian Horse is a rare breed.  There are only about 6500 Canadian Horses in total, and of these only about 1600 geldings in existence in the entire world.  Thus, this greatly limits their availability, as well what there is to choose from.
 

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Particularly in western Canada and most of the USA, Canadian Horses in general (let alone those meeting specific criteria with respect to color, size, age, and training) are in short supply. This is due in part because of their rarity, but also primarily because of the geographical distance from Quebec, where the majority of Canadian Horses are still located.
 

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Keep in mind that once a good Canadian Horse joins a family and has received any sort of training, usually they don't ever tend to leave again. Thus finding good quality, well trained horses without "baggage" can sometimes be quite difficult.
 

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Given these factors, finding a Canadian to meet very specific criteria (e.g. that noted above) will often be nearly impossible. We like to tell prospective buyers that if they really want to get a Canadian Horse, it is important to leave themselves open to any and all options including age, sex and color.
 

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To truly open up your options for horse availability, and only if you are experienced enough, you may want to consider purchasing a youngster, and bringing it along yourself, making sure to get additional help and training as needed.


 

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 What size of horse should I buy?
 
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Many of our inquiries come from individuals requesting  a  "16 hh or preferably bigger Canadian".
 

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It is important to remember that the breed standard is 14 - 16 hh. Given this, the "average" size of Canadian Horse is about 15 hh.  Horses at the upper end of the scale are the exception rather than the rule.  Deliberately looking for horses outside of the breed standard, does the breed's integrity no good whatsoever!
 

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People often call us saying "I previously rode a 16 hh TB, so I need a Canadian Horse the same size so it will fit me".  It is important to remember that the Canadian is a very large bodied and strong horse. Given this, riding a sturdy Canadian of the same height will be a very different ride than a light horse breed of the same height. These horses are MUCH stronger, plus there is a lot more weight and body to move forward and to hold together (e.g. at the canter).
 

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Remember to take into consideration that Canadians tend to be very slow maturing.   and so may not have the most exceptional balance or athleticism as youngster.  You may find out that by buying too large of a horse, you have gotten far more than you ever bargained for!
 

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This breed for years was selectively bred for carriage driving, not for riding.  Thus they tend to have an excellent, ground covering trot, but (especially in some individuals) a weak canter that needs considerable work to develop.  The larger the horse tends to be, the less naturally well balanced they tend to be, and accordingly, find the canter even more difficult.  So, unless you are an experienced horse person who can patiently help the horse to balance and develop the canter, you may find this to be a problematic trait in some Canadian Horses.
 

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Also, last but not least, keep in mind that the sheer size and bulk of some of the larger horses may make them less suitable for disciplines requiring stamina or endurance.  Basically their less efficient type of movement and heavy body mass can result in a diminished ability to dissipate heat.


 

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When I go to the breeder or seller's farm, what do I look for?

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First and foremost, before ever going to the farm, do your research first.  Consider (and ask) the following:

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Is the breeder reputable, and how do I determine this?
Ask Around.  Check the internet, ask or check the archives of the various Canadian Horse internet groups, and go by client references. Unless the breeder is reputable, there is no point in even going.
 

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For more information on how to determine a reputable breeder, see the Canadien Horse Breeders of Ontario web page, What Is A Reputable Horse Breeder?
 

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Is the breeder one who is highly recommended by others?
Good word of mouth is one of your most valuable tools when looking for a horse.
 

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Is the breeder willing to provide references?  
Any reputable/caring breeder should gladly supply you with names of people who have bought horses from them in the past. 
 

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When you contact the references, are they happy with the horses that they bought?
Good references ARE important since this is a long term and expensive investment that you will be making when you purchase your horse.

 

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If at all possible, go to the farm in person.  Buying a horse over the internet or site unseen can be very difficult and fraught with potential problems.
 

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When you are actually on the farm,  you should look carefully at the following:

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What is the general state of the farm?
Are things run down and in disrepair? If so, this may be indicative of the care given to the horses as well.
 

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Does the horse appear to be well cared for?
Does it have a shiny coat and look healthy?
Are there dapples on it's coat?
These are all good signs, and are indicative of good care being given.
 

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What is the horse's weight like?
Is the horse a good weight or is it grossly obese (which can hide some conformational flaws) or thin with ribs showing (VERY unusual in the Canadian Horse and may be indicative of illness)? Remember that Canadians tend to be very "easy keeping" horses, and thus their appearance should be judged accordingly.
 

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What is the condition of the horse's feet?
Just because Canadian Horses have a reputation for having excellent quality feet, doesn't mean that routine foot care should be neglected. Are the feet neatly trimmed and/or shod, or are they chipped, overlong, splayed out or covered with rings? Often the state of the feet is a good reflection on how the rest of the horse has been cared for. Remember the old adage: "no hoof, no horse".
 

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Can you even pick up its feet?
Make sure to do this or to make sure that the seller demonstrates this for you. You should be able to pick up any horse's feet - even if it is a youngster. There is absolutely NO excuse for an adult horse not being able to pick up its feet! This indicates a lack of handling and basic ground manners.
 

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Has the horse received the minimum in basic health care?
This is VERY IMPORTANT!!! Has it been vaccinated and wormed routinely? Horses which have not been wormed routinely, may suffer irreparable damage to their digestive tracts and could be more prone to digestive ailments (such as colic). Have the breeder/seller show you the documentation to prove that this has indeed been done.
[Author's note: Sadly, we are starting to hear increasing numbers of stories of horses having been purchased from poorly run farms, where no health care whatsoever has been done. This lack of care, particularly with regards to routine worming has resulted in the horses having had repeated episodes of colic, and ultimately in the death of the horses, due to severe, irreparable parasite damage done to the intestines.]
 

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How many horses are there on the farm?
It has been our experience that with smaller farms with fewer horses, the breeder often has more time to devote to each individual horse.  This ensures that the horses have been well handled and socialized. Before buying any horse, be sure that it is well socialized to people, and that it has received the basics in handling and ground manners.
 

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How much handling has the horse received?
A fully grown and very green Canadian which has not been handled much, is usually NOT a good choice for an inexperienced horse person! These are very intelligent and physically strong horses which often will "test" their owner to see where they fit into in the farm hierarchy. Most Canadian Horses which have received proper handling and socialization with people tend to be kind natured and easy to handle. Horses which have not been handled or which have been abused may be less than "willing", occasionally stubborn and in the worse case scenario, even aggressive if they sense their handler to be a "pushover" or submissive or frightened of them.
 

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What is the horse's nature or temperament like?
Canadian Horses are renowned for their good natures and sociable tendencies. Most Canadians are very "in your face" horses and just love to visit and be with people. Is the horse friendly and wanting to visit, or pushy and ill mannered, or timid and running away?  Watch carefully for signs of the aggressive and threatening horse which turns its hindquarters towards you in a threatening manner when you approach.  Walk away from these ones!
 

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How does the horse act around people?
Is it well behaved and does it have good ground manners, or is it pushy, aggressive or ill behaved? Because Canadians do tend to be "in your face" horses which love to be right next to you at all times, if not treated with some firmness and consistency, they can also be right on top of you, and even shoving you around if allowed to do so. If the horse that you are looking at has been allowed to act in an aggressive and pushy manner, it may is best to avoid it as this is a very hard trait to correct (especially for an inexperienced or novice horse-person). Keep in mind that if this behaviour is allowed to go unchecked long enough, the horse may even become dangerous. It is the breeder's responsibility to be handling the horse and teaching it good manners from an early age. You should not have to do this after you have purchased the horse!
 

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Does the horse seem to be calm and relaxed or is it nervous and jumpy?
The Canadian breed is famed for its very quiet nature and willingness to accept new situations calmly and willingly, however not all Canadians are like this. If the horse is spooky or nervous, this may be indicative of inadequate handling, poor eyesight or just the nature of that particular animal. When looking at a horse to buy, expose it to a new situation - make a sudden move or roll something around in front of it. Does it act inquisitive and interested or does it just bolt away in fear. If it does the latter, it may indicate that this particular horse is not the best choice if you are looking for a calm horse with an accepting nature.
 

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How does the horse move?
Watch the horse move at liberty and in work. In our experience, Canadian Horses seem to have differing types of movement. The carriage type seems to have a higher knee action, good ground covering trot with lots of animation, but occasionally may have a short strided and perhaps less than desirable canter. The riding type tends to have a lower knee action, a good trot, and most importantly, a good balanced canter with a natural ability to do correct canter leads (e.g. not counter-cantering or disunited) and natural flying lead changes. Pay careful attention to assure that the horse that you are looking at, is able to move in a fashion that is suitable for what you want to do with it.
 

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Is the horse sound?
As a rule, Canadian Horses are well known for their sturdiness and soundness. Does the horse travel properly with no sign of soreness, or does it look "off". If in doubt, be certain have the horse vet checked for soundness before purchasing (in fact this is a good idea to do with all potential purchases, anyway).
 

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What sort of training is the horse being sold with?
 Is the seller able to demonstrate that the horse can do what is claimed?

Be sure to have the seller demonstrate that the horse is actually capable of doing what was stated.
Any horse being sold (be it a youngster or an adult) should have at the very minimum, basic halter training. It should be able to be caught, haltered and be able to lead well (e.g. not pulling on you or conversely, needing to be dragged around).  If it is supposedly "broke to ride" or drive, ensure that someone is actually able to demonstrate with the horse that this is indeed the case.  Don't just take them at their word.  
 

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Ask the breeder what they do with their horses?
In some cases, there are breeders who only breed their horses and never actually use them. Ask the breeder how they use their own horses. If they never use their horses, be aware that this particular individual may not be all that objective or realistic about their horse's abilities. They may not actually be able to recognize good (or not) movement, or really know if their horse has the aptitude to do the disciplines that they are claiming.


 

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 How much does a Canadian Horse cost?
 
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Again, keep in mind that this is a rare horse breed which is not readily available just anywhere. The cost of a Canadian will likely be more than with other horse breeds but as with anything good, usually "you get what you pay for".
 

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The cost does tend to vary depending on where you are situated, the age of the horse, the amount of training that it has, the bloodlines, the breeder, and the sex.  In times past, geldings used to cost less than breeding stock, however given their unavailability now, they are often the same price.
 

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Where you are located geographically also makes a huge difference in the price. The greatest population and availability of Canadians still remains in Quebec, so they tend to cost less there. In western Canada or through most of the USA, there are fewer horses available.  Also, a considerable cost has been incurred in having had horses shipped to these areas.  Accordingly, this tends to make the prices of horses in these areas higher. 
 

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In most cases, the horse's training and breeding reflects the price being asked for them.  However unfortunately in other cases it simply does not.  Of late, with the rapidly increasing interest and demand for the breed, prices are starting to skyrocket in some small localized areas. There have been some cases reported of breeders/sellers trying to capitalize on the breed's increasing popularity, by sometimes asking considerably more than the price of what a comparably bred and trained horse might be priced at elsewhere. Before buying a horse from any one particular seller, do be sure to check around with other breeders/sellers to ensure that what you are thinking of paying, is indeed a fair price for the horse that you are planning to buy!
 

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We would suggest that you always buy your Canadian Horse outright.  Avoid part-ownership or partnership deals where you own the horse jointly with someone else.  Unfortunately we have heard way too many horror stories of deals such as this going sour!
 

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If you buy a Canadian Horse, as always, Caveat Emptor ("buyer beware") applies.  Be sure to do your research and make sure to shop around first, before you commit yourself to this long term and expensive investment. In the end, when you have your very own perfect Canadian, you won't regret the time that you spent doing your homework in the beginning!
 

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Last but not least, if you have checked things out, you know that the breeder/seller is reputable and has good references, you have found the horse of your dreams and the seller is asking a FAIR price, do be prepared to pay that price. If the breeder has quality animals which have been handled and looked after, you should expect to pay for this. Personally as breeders, we pride ourselves on asking a fair price for our horses. They are handled and well cared for, and we feel that they are priced accordingly.   Dickering on price can be quite insulting, and in many cases will turn a seller off completely.  Although some breeders don't mind, others really do!  In our particular situation, we are of the mind that if you start dickering with us on price, you have basically ensured that you won't be getting one of our horses...


 

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What about bloodlines?
 
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There are only 8 bloodlines in the Canadian Horse breed. Some of these lines are more common, some less so. For more information on bloodlines, see Bloodlines page.
 

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Does it matter to you whether you have a horse from a rare line or not?  If you have no plans to breed, then there probably isn't much point in going to a breeders place who specializes in selling breeding stock with rare bloodlines that they are hoping to have perpetuated.
 

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 Consider what you want to do with your horse? Are you looking for a certain type of temperament or build or movement?  Then you might want to look at horses coming from lines that are known for having those types of characteristics.
 

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Are you looking for breeding stock? In this case, do your research ahead of time. A good place to begin, is at the Bloodlines information section on this website (see link below). Think about what you want to be breeding for (eg good temperament,  a specific bloodline, type of build, a certain "look" or way of going, or for a specific discipline) and then look for examples that will fit your needs.
 

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If you are looking for breeding stock, be sure to find out what other horses (mares, stallions) are available near you and what lines they are from. Try to avoid getting more stock that is closely related to that already in the area.  Doing this is of little benefit to you or the breed as it then eliminates the breeding options which are open to you and the others around you. There is little value for the breed in buying a stallion prospect for your farm, if his full brother is standing just one town over.  As the saying goes "variety is the spice of life" and by ensuring a good variety of lines, this will help to keep the breed free of genetic diseases resulting from inbreeding.


 

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 What about purity?
 
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On the registration papers for each Canadian Horse, the degree of purity is noted.  The horse is denoted either as purebred, or else a percentage purity is specified.
 

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This is our interpretation of the whole purity issue:
 
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When the numbers of Canadian Horses dropped to very low levels back in the 1930's and 40's, the studbooks were officially opened in order to allow more mares in. These mares were for all intents and purposes pure Canadian horses but had never previously been registered, and they had to possess all of the appropriate characteristics of a Canadian Horse. They were each inspected rigorously and had to meet strict criteria in order to be admitted into the registry.
 

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When these horses (mares only) were allowed into the registry, they were often (but not always) given a letter prefix in front of their names (usually an "S" for "souche") and they were designated as being only 50 % pure.  All mares must always be bred to a 100 % pureblood stallion, so with each succeeding generation, the offspring of a less than 100 % mare becomes more "pure". The degree of purity increases as follows:
 
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A 50 % (or previously never registered) mare bred to 100% stallion = 75 % offspring. Colts must be gelded as they are not purebred and cannot be used for breeding purposes, but the fillies can be used for breeding.

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A 75 % mare bred to 100 % stallion = 87.5 % offspring. Colts must be gelded as they are not purebred and cannot be used for breeding purposes, but the fillies can be used for breeding. -

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An 87.5 % mare bred to 100 % stallion = 93.75 % offspring. The fillies are now deemed to be purebred and all of their offspring (either male or female) will considered pure. The colts are still not considered to be purebred (they are 15/16) and must still be gelded.

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A 93.75 % mare bred to 100 % stallion = 96.875 % offspring. All offspring (both colts and fillies) are now considered to be purebred and can be used for breeding purposes.
 

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Sadly, we have been advised of cases where people have purchased unregistered, partbred horses for top dollar, and have been told by unscrupulous sellers that then can then go on to have these horses registered.   It is important to realize that these "degrees of purity" apply only to registered Canadian Horses. You cannot breed a Canadian Horse to another breed of horse and expect to register the offspring as a 50% pure Canadian. Neither can you breed a Canadian cross back to a purebred Canadian and expect to register it, even though with each generation it has more pure Canadian blood in it.   Any offspring (no matter how many generations on down the line) resulting from Canadians being bred to an outside breed, or to an unregistered Canadian, will never be able to be registered.
 

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Canadian crosses of any type and degree are NOT recognized by the Canadian Horse Breeders Association / Société des Eleveurs de Chevaux Canadiens or the Canadian Livestock Records Corporation (registering body), and therefore cannot be registered. 
 

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There are no recognized partbred registries of any sort for the Canadian Horse breed.
 There are unrecognized registries that exist, however before you send your money away, be advised that these are privately owned and run, and thus are not accountable to anyone since they are not governed by any sort of standards or official organizations.
 

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The issue of "non-pure" Canadians in the stud books is confusing to many.  Remember that the non-registered Canadian horses were only incorporated into the studbooks during a time when there were few Canadian Horses left in existence, and those that were admitted were still basically "pure" albeit unregistered Canadians.
 

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Since the Canadian Horse genetic pool has recently been determined to have "not suffered a loss in genetic variation due to its small population size" (from DNA Detectives, "Using Genetics to Pinpoint Endangered Canadian Horse Breeds", A Behara, 1998 Canadian Horse Annual), there is no need for outside blood, thus the stud books have been closed for years, and in all likelihood will permanently remain so, now.
 

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Of note, is the following:
"The Canadian, bred in isolation for so long, does still appear to be genetically distinct from the popular riding and racing breeds, reinforcing the need to give high priority to its conservation".
(From DNA Detectives, Using Genetics to Pinpoint Endangered Canadian Horse Breeds, A Behara, 1998 Canadian Horse Annual).
 

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Since this is a breed that has been shown to be genetically unique, this should be recognized and preserved as such. Dilution of the Canadian Horse breed by the introduction of outside blood is unnecessary and would only result in its degradation. It is truly a special and genetically unique breed and all efforts should be made to preserve it as such.
 

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For more information on the topic of purity, see the Canadian Livestock Records Corporation web site.


 

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I am looking at, or have bought a horse that didn't come with papers, but I am sure it is a Canadian as it looks just like one.  How can I tell if it is a Canadian, and if it has been registered?  If it has no papers, how can I get it registered?
 
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For the most part, a registered Canadian is much more valuable than an unregistered Canadian, so there are very very few cases of registered horses being sold without papers.
 

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If you have a horse that you think might be a Canadian, you need to talk to the sellers and try to find the history of the horse, and particularly who bred it.  If you can get the breeder's name and contact information, contact them to get a history on the horse.
 

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You can check the Canadian Livestock Records Corporation (CLRC) website to see if there is a horse that matches your horse's history and description, or to get contact information on Canadian Horse breeders.
 

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Have your vet scan the horse's neck for the electronic microchip ID or look for a lip tattoo.  All Canadian Horses that have been registered, must have one of these two means of identification.  If the horse does turn out to have identification, contact the CLRC to have the horse identified, and to have the registration papers reissued.
 

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If the horse is a purebred Canadian but there is no way of verifying this, unfortunately, there is NO hardship clause or any kind of inspection with the breed registry that will allow a such a horse to be registered. 
 

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An unregistered Canadian can be only be registered, if both of the parents have been registered.  In addition, both parents must have been either both dna, or both blood typed (eg same type of parentage typing used on both).  In this case, parentage verification can be done on the unregistered horse to determine that it was in fact descended from the individuals as claimed.  Only when all of these specifications have been fulfilled,  can the horse in question be registered (usually with a considerable financial penalty). 
 

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If you have an unregistered horse that descends from two registered parents, and one or both of the parents are now deceased without ever having dna or blood testing done, it is unlikely that the horse will be able to be registered.  Only if the parentage of the unregistered horse can be established, can it be registered.  However for further inquiries re this matter, contact the Canadian Livestock Records Corporation .


 

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Before signing on the dotted line...

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Especially if buying the horse without being able to see it or try it out first hand, be VERY sure that the breeder is able to demonstrate to you that the horse can physically and mentally "do" what they are claimed to be able to do.   If you cannot evaluate it yourself in person, have someone located geographically closer to the horse to do so. 
 

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If you cannot evaluate the horse in person or have someone do it for you, at least evaluate it carefully on video. Be sure to watch the horse move to ensure that it is sound, observe it carefully to ensure that it moves in a way suitable for what you want to use it for, and most of all be sure to have its riding/driving ability demonstrated for you, under a variety of circumstances and conditions. In our experience, not all horses claimed to be "broke", are!
 

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When assessing the horse, make sure that if it is a potential dressage "star", then it had better have good movement and balance. If it is a potential driving candidate, does it appear calm and trustworthy in harness? If it is has super "jumper" potential, then you had better be sure to watch it go over some fences to indeed be sure that it is capable of this.
 

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Last, but definitely not least, be sure to get a Veterinary Pre-purchase exam done on ANY horse that you are seriously considering purchasing!  Any reputable seller will be receptive to having this done. If the seller is resistant to having their horse vet checked, there is usually a very good reason why.  In this kind of situation, alarm bells should be ringing and you should just walk away... 


 

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Who is responsible for doing the paperwork?

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Once you have chosen your horse and have made the commitment to buy it, according to the Canadian Pedigree Act, legally it is the seller's responsibility to complete and pay for all paperwork to do with the transaction.  The buyer is never legally responsible for having this done, so if a seller tries to tell you this, they are not correct.
 

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This includes having a foal micro-chipped for identification purposes, its registration in your name as owner, and as of 2002, having it (and both of it's parents) DNA typed for parentage verification.
 

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In the case of an already registered horse, it is the seller's responsibility to transfer the registration of the horse into your name. 


 

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Last but not least...

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For more good information see the Canadien Horse Breeders of Ontario website for several helpful hints on horse buying, and also What to Look for in a Horse on the Horses in Canada website.  This site gives good basic information on searching for a horse of your own.

 

Hopefully these tips will help to assist you in the search for your own Canadian Horse.

Happy horse hunting!

 

 

 

**NEW**
(as of March 2006)

See our new website home:  http://www.cherrycreekcanadians.ca

Due to space limitations on our original website, we have now moved to our very own domain. 
This site has much more room, so will be filled with larger photos, videos of our horses etc
Be sure to bookmark this page as it is going to become our primary website location.

 

Updated Thursday March 23, 2006

© Cherry Creek Canadians