Tony Garland's Pretrib Onlyism
Replies are from last to first:
(his website is located here from these links, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Earlychurchfathers.htm )
You have made a mistaken assumption and it rests here, for you believe you
have met "in the past with others on similar topics" and did not result in the
answer. My belief is that previously no one could explain to you adequately what
you need to know and how you are misreading and where your spirit needs to be
reached. The other reason is because you wish to remain what you are. My concern
is that you do not teach people the wrong thing and for you to come into the
I agree that since I already know in my spirit and a few men have received this most inward blessing of Rev. 1.3, I am pretty sure your mind is made up; there will be no progress in swaying you for experimentally this has proven to be the case even with those with your credentials time and time again, so instead let me just give you the crux of my reason and let you ponder it because you have never come across someone like me.
The information I have provided you already deals with your "division" of the body of Christ concern. Note Watchman Nee's most spiritual response, "Some people say that the rapture of the church cannot be divided because the body of Christ cannot be divided. It should be noted in reply, however, that the body is a figure of speech which signifies one life, If the body is taken literally, then there is already division today because the Lord is now in heaven, Paul has already died, we remain living on earth, and some believers are yet to be born" in the Rapture Proof, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Partial_rapture.htm . Therefore it is fair to say that you have legalized parousia (even trying to control it), and that legalism is born out in the reasoning below in what is being taken away in the onlyist positions. Additionally as a result of this attempting to box in God is the borg like mentality of we will assimilate you into denominationalism of Baptists. But here is revealed something very special, that even baptism should not be legalized with or without water, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/waterbaptism.htm.
So that the problem is not baptism but man's flesh in misusing it based on a
false foundation of denominationalism not realizing that the true church, though
may be spersed throughout denominations, is not primarily found in a domination
because a denomination holds to certain things that divide the body of Christ.
Therefore, what is the proper foundation of division. It is here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/whichchurch.htm . Now I understand why you
are locked into your view. It is as if you have slid into home plate from half
way from third base, so over committed as a member of the baptist system. Our
placement in the body of Christ is dependant on the work of God, but the problem
is salvation is not just initial salvation, but it is a life of overcoming in
Christ deliverance from sin, natural and supernatural so that God is going to
have all of us in Christ reach that point where none of us can no longer be hurt
by the second death. But advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere do
exist, as noted by T. Austin Sparks,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/PartialRaptureBelievers.htm . This should not
offend you, but be spiritually enlightening and strengthening for your spirit,
even spiritually motivating, certainly God's desire. Certainly we do not demand
of God certain rewards for such should not be legalized, the message here,
You are stuck on your position on the Restrainer not able to see that such a name is never given to God. But the one who restrains does so because he is waiting for the right time unleash his wrath, Satan's wrath. It is optimizing opportunity why Satan holds back. Eg. Nuclear holocaust perhaps. So what you are saying really is "no believer can lose Satan". But I am here to tell you that we believers in Christ can shake off Satan once and all forever for not only at the Great Tribulation is Satan extinguished for 1000 years, but then at the Last Revolt at the end of those 1000 years Satan is permanenly cast into hell gehenna lake of fire. He is let out that one last time to show men still yet had some hidden sin in their hearts, even during the millennial kingdom while Jesus Christ was reigning in Person.
My believe in your position is this - in your saying "I have no doubt that every single believer will avoid the mark--by the power of the Holy Spirit" I find this to be a contradiction making the claim that you are a believer in believing you will be first raptured. It is already presumed by you so in presuming this you also presume that even if you are wrong you will still be ok yet assuming that you won't go through the Tribulation. This to my spirit the Spirit says to me that you have a flaw in this thought, because you can't have your cake and eat it too. Separate rapture is better because it says, if I am ready to be received I will be received at first rapture. But if I am not ready I accept God's desire and need for me to undergo further chastisement not only in the Tribulation, but if I have not overcome by then, then "outer darkness" will complete the rest of my reaching the point of no longer being hurt by the second death. This is a more mature position and has much grace, accuracy in the Word for now I don't sit back and presume but the Spirit is given more room to work in my spirit as I am motivated and moved in my inner man to work, not OT works types, but abiding works in Christ that He sets for us that He desires for us personally.
So in reality pretribulation onlyism is dividing the body of Christ in this fashion arguing with posttribber onlyists and prewrather onlyists, even mid-tribber onlyists. But do you see how separate rapture solves this problem, and no long makes it an issue of pride of onlyism, but a matter of overcoming and readiness unto maturity and sonship in Christ? As noted here, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/agreement.htm .
So the question is not whether the saved with take the mark since obviously they will not since they are already saved foreknown by God. That is not the problem. The problem is yourself presuming first rapture and in so presuming this for all believers it may be a sign that you are a not a Christian at all in this symptom. For those that have a "white stone" (Rev. 2 and 3) know they will be first raptured but even they do not say all will be first raptured. Do you see your mind's flaw?
The crux is pinpointed on the fact that many believers still lie on a bed of fornications as if they were still babes in Christ, a carnal Christianity. In order for God to deal with this problem and since many believers leave the body in that non-overcoming state, God will take away rewards from them, the rewards of reigning during the millennial kingdom and that place of loss of rewards is called "outer darkness".
At first rapture is a matter of readiness to be received to the throne. But why? And why only those (approximately 1/7th) of the body of Christ that is alive at the time will be raptured at first rapture? It is because, when those who are first ready to be received, as typified by the 144,000 firsfruits and their class of overcomers with them, which allows for the commencement of Christ's parousia (it is dependant on man's reaching his necessary apex which God has been waiting for), then something happens. Here you then have Satan in heaven (2nd heaven) and those of first rapture raptured before the throne at Rev. 7.9. Both can't occupy heaven at the same time, so ensues the war in heaven as seen in Rev. 12. My wish is for you to read the intricacies of Watchman Nee's "Come, Lord Jesus". Here is a little bio I wrote, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/WNwho.htm . I am humble enough to realize that there are men vastly more intelligent than I am and who sacrafice themselves more than I do. To appreciate his intelligence, his IQ was close to 200 it is said and one of the few that had a true photographic memory. The white covers are here, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Watchman_Nee.htm . Satan is finally cast down after 3.5 years at Rev. 9.1 as a fallen star and thus commences the Great Tribulation.
As a vital point of information, note that the first resurrection includes the first rapture, but the first resurrection also includes more than just those raptured at the first rapture as there are three groups that include the first resurrection. This piece explains first resurrection, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Revelation_20.htm .
I want you to know for your benefit that I can see underneath you and though
you may not be able to discern how or why, keep in the back of the recesses of
your mind, that I can see you. I can't tell if this is unsalvation for you and
if you have never received initial salvation or that you are a non-believer
propping yourself up in the church, but I can say the danger of you having never
been saved to begin with in reality is far greater than a babe in Christ who may
be a pre-tribber onlyist because at this point in your life with all your
degrees and experience you definitely by this time should no better. If I can
know these things already, then why can't you? This is proof that this spiritual
knowledge is not mental at all, but is in the functions of conscience and
intuition in our spirit. In fact mental gymnastics will be a great stumbling
block. That is why Watchman Nee's writings are so special, because his IQ was
close to 200 and he did read over 3000 Christian books, and yet still remained
true. I point out W. Nee only as a point of comparison of men with men.
With your vast amount of knowledge you should no better.
From: contact@SpiritAndTruth.org [mailto:contact@SpiritAndTruth.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:48 PM
To: 'Troy Brooks'
Subject: RE: The work set before you
I can appreciate your interest in discussing what you feel is the proper interpretation of Scripture in regard to the rapture. Unfortunately, I'm pretty convinced we are at polar opposites on many issues and I've found in the past that extensive dialog generally is very time-consuming and seldom moves either party away from their convictions.
The main difference we have undoubtedly concerns the nature of the "body of Christ" -- which I believe to be indivisible. Hence, any view of a partial rapture is outside my theology, regardless of a myriad of other details. I view our placement into the body of Christ as a function of God's work, not ours--by the baptism of the Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13). As you know, I understand the Restrainer to be the Holy Spirit Whom no believer can lose. So I believe in an organic union between believers and Christ's spiritual body which cannot be divided. A partial rapture violates such unity. That's where I'm coming from. If I turn out to be wrong, and some or all believers undergo the Tribulation, I have no doubt that every single believer will avoid the mark--by the power of the Holy Spirit. (This is obvious too by the fact that all who take the mark are eternally damned--and therefore not among the elect.)
I share that little bit not because I am interested in swaying you--I doubt that is possible. Nor do I have the time or desire to engage in lengthy discussion of the details (as I have in the past with others on similar topics). I am called to teach what I see in Scripture so that is where I will be putting my limited energy and ability.
As to whatever authority I may have, that can only be by God and through an understanding and careful representation of His Word which is my duty and prayer.
May God bless you as you pursue Him through His word.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Troy Brooks [mailto:email@example.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:15 PM
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Subject: The work set before you
> You are welcome. My hope in emailing you was to talk to someone who
> should have great authority such as yourself and notice the negative
> consequences of believing what you believe, that is primarily, that,
> if you overassume first rapture, what are the consequences?
> Lets say you go through the Tribulation, how will you be of means to
> even realize it since you have already decided in your mind that it is
> not possible. When it happens why would you not take the mark of the
> beast since such a choice before you you assume will never have to be
> made. Do not a a large many folks believe as you do for their emotion?
> Do you see at the essence how dangerous and soporofic pre-trib.
> onlyism is?
> I would love to have you review the essence, righteousness, and the
> precision of partial rapture and get back to me when you are ready. I
> would love to even hear that you have had a change of mind also, even
> more so, humbly.