Tony Garland's Pretrib Onlyism
Replies are from last to first:
(his website is located here from these links, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Earlychurchfathers.htm )
Tony,
You have made a mistaken assumption and it rests here, for you believe you
have met "in the past with others on similar topics" and did not result in the
answer. My belief is that previously no one could explain to you adequately what
you need to know and how you are misreading and where your spirit needs to be
reached. The other reason is because you wish to remain what you are. My concern
is that you do not teach people the wrong thing and for you to come into the
light.
I agree that since I already know in my spirit and a few men have received this
most inward blessing of Rev. 1.3, I am pretty sure your mind is made up; there
will be no progress in swaying you for experimentally this has proven to be the
case even with those with your credentials time and time again, so instead let
me just give you the crux of my reason and let you ponder it because you have
never come across someone like me.
The information I have provided you already deals with your "division" of the
body of Christ concern. Note Watchman Nee's most spiritual response, "Some
people say that the rapture of the church cannot be divided because the body of
Christ cannot be divided. It should be noted in reply, however, that the body is
a figure of speech which signifies one life, If the body is taken literally,
then there is already division today because the Lord is now in heaven, Paul has
already died, we remain living on earth, and some believers are yet to be born"
in the Rapture Proof,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Partial_rapture.htm . Therefore it is fair to
say that you have legalized parousia (even trying to control it), and that
legalism is born out in the reasoning below in what is being taken away in the
onlyist positions. Additionally as a result of this attempting to box in God is
the borg like mentality of we will assimilate you into denominationalism of
Baptists. But here is revealed something very special, that even baptism should
not be legalized with or without water,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/waterbaptism.htm.
So that the problem is not baptism but man's flesh in misusing it based on a
false foundation of denominationalism not realizing that the true church, though
may be spersed throughout denominations, is not primarily found in a domination
because a denomination holds to certain things that divide the body of Christ.
Therefore, what is the proper foundation of division. It is here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/whichchurch.htm . Now I understand why you
are locked into your view. It is as if you have slid into home plate from half
way from third base, so over committed as a member of the baptist system. Our
placement in the body of Christ is dependant on the work of God, but the problem
is salvation is not just initial salvation, but it is a life of overcoming in
Christ deliverance from sin, natural and supernatural so that God is going to
have all of us in Christ reach that point where none of us can no longer be hurt
by the second death. But advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere do
exist, as noted by T. Austin Sparks,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/PartialRaptureBelievers.htm . This should not
offend you, but be spiritually enlightening and strengthening for your spirit,
even spiritually motivating, certainly God's desire. Certainly we do not demand
of God certain rewards for such should not be legalized, the message here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/notlegalizing.htm .
You are stuck on your position on the Restrainer not able to see that such a
name is never given to God. But the one who restrains does so because he is
waiting for the right time unleash his wrath, Satan's wrath. It is optimizing
opportunity why Satan holds back. Eg. Nuclear holocaust perhaps. So what you are
saying really is "no believer can lose Satan". But I am here to tell you that we
believers in Christ can shake off Satan once and all forever for not only at the
Great Tribulation is Satan extinguished for 1000 years, but then at the Last
Revolt at the end of those 1000 years Satan is permanenly cast into hell gehenna
lake of fire. He is let out that one last time to show men still yet had some
hidden sin in their hearts, even during the millennial kingdom while Jesus
Christ was reigning in Person.
My believe in your position is this - in your saying "I have no doubt that every
single believer will avoid the mark--by the power of the Holy Spirit" I find
this to be a contradiction making the claim that you are a believer in believing
you will be first raptured. It is already presumed by you so in presuming this
you also presume that even if you are wrong you will still be ok yet assuming
that you won't go through the Tribulation. This to my spirit the Spirit says to
me that you have a flaw in this thought, because you can't have your cake and
eat it too. Separate rapture is better because it says, if I am ready to be
received I will be received at first rapture. But if I am not ready I accept
God's desire and need for me to undergo further chastisement not only in the
Tribulation, but if I have not overcome by then, then "outer darkness" will
complete the rest of my reaching the point of no longer being hurt by the second
death. This is a more mature position and has much grace, accuracy in the Word
for now I don't sit back and presume but the Spirit is given more room to work
in my spirit as I am motivated and moved in my inner man to work, not OT works
types, but abiding works in Christ that He sets for us that He desires for us
personally.
So in reality pretribulation onlyism is dividing the body of Christ in this
fashion arguing with posttribber onlyists and prewrather onlyists, even
mid-tribber onlyists. But do you see how separate rapture solves this problem,
and no long makes it an issue of pride of onlyism, but a matter of overcoming
and readiness unto maturity and sonship in Christ? As noted here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/agreement.htm .
So the question is not whether the saved with take the mark since obviously they
will not since they are already saved foreknown by God. That is not the problem.
The problem is yourself presuming first rapture and in so presuming this for all
believers it may be a sign that you are a not a Christian at all in this
symptom. For those that have a "white stone" (Rev. 2 and 3) know they will be
first raptured but even they do not say all will be first raptured. Do you see
your mind's flaw?
The crux is pinpointed on the fact that many believers still lie on a bed of
fornications as if they were still babes in Christ, a carnal Christianity. In
order for God to deal with this problem and since many believers leave the body
in that non-overcoming state, God will take away rewards from them, the rewards
of reigning during the millennial kingdom and that place of loss of rewards is
called "outer darkness".
At first rapture is a matter of readiness to be received to the throne. But why?
And why only those (approximately 1/7th) of the body of Christ that is alive at
the time will be raptured at first rapture? It is because, when those who are
first ready to be received, as typified by the 144,000 firsfruits and their
class of overcomers with them, which allows for the commencement of Christ's
parousia (it is dependant on man's reaching his necessary apex which God has
been waiting for), then something happens. Here you then have Satan in heaven
(2nd heaven) and those of first rapture raptured before the throne at Rev. 7.9.
Both can't occupy heaven at the same time, so ensues the war in heaven as seen
in Rev. 12. My wish is for you to read the intricacies of Watchman Nee's "Come,
Lord Jesus". Here is a little bio I wrote,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/WNwho.htm . I am humble enough to realize
that there are men vastly more intelligent than I am and who sacrafice
themselves more than I do. To appreciate his intelligence, his IQ was close to
200 it is said and one of the few that had a true photographic memory. The white
covers are here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Watchman_Nee.htm . Satan is finally cast down
after 3.5 years at Rev. 9.1 as a fallen star and thus commences the Great
Tribulation.
As a vital point of information, note that the first resurrection includes the
first rapture, but the first resurrection also includes more than just those
raptured at the first rapture as there are three groups that include the first
resurrection. This piece explains first resurrection,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Revelation_20.htm .
I want you to know for your benefit that I can see underneath you and though
you may not be able to discern how or why, keep in the back of the recesses of
your mind, that I can see you. I can't tell if this is unsalvation for you and
if you have never received initial salvation or that you are a non-believer
propping yourself up in the church, but I can say the danger of you having never
been saved to begin with in reality is far greater than a babe in Christ who may
be a pre-tribber onlyist because at this point in your life with all your
degrees and experience you definitely by this time should no better. If I can
know these things already, then why can't you? This is proof that this spiritual
knowledge is not mental at all, but is in the functions of conscience and
intuition in our spirit. In fact mental gymnastics will be a great stumbling
block. That is why Watchman Nee's writings are so special, because his IQ was
close to 200 and he did read over 3000 Christian books, and yet still remained
true. I point out W. Nee only as a point of comparison of men with men.
With your vast amount of knowledge you should no better.
-----Original Message-----
From: contact@SpiritAndTruth.org [mailto:contact@SpiritAndTruth.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:48 PM
To: 'Troy Brooks'
Subject: RE: The work set before you
Hi Troy,
I can appreciate your interest in discussing what you feel is the proper
interpretation of Scripture in regard to the rapture. Unfortunately, I'm pretty
convinced we are at polar opposites on many issues and I've found in the past
that extensive dialog generally is very time-consuming and seldom moves either
party away from their convictions.
The main difference we have undoubtedly concerns the nature of the "body of
Christ" -- which I believe to be indivisible. Hence, any view of a partial
rapture is outside my theology, regardless of a myriad of other details. I view
our placement into the body of Christ as a function of God's work, not ours--by
the baptism of the Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13). As you know, I understand the
Restrainer to be the Holy Spirit Whom no believer can lose. So I believe in an
organic union between believers and Christ's spiritual body which cannot be
divided. A partial rapture violates such unity. That's where I'm coming from. If
I turn out to be wrong, and some or all believers undergo the Tribulation, I
have no doubt that every single believer will avoid the mark--by the power of
the Holy Spirit. (This is obvious too by the fact that all who take the mark are
eternally damned--and therefore not among the elect.)
I share that little bit not because I am interested in swaying you--I doubt that
is possible. Nor do I have the time or desire to engage in lengthy discussion of
the details (as I have in the past with others on similar topics). I am called
to teach what I see in Scripture so that is where I will be putting my limited
energy and ability.
As to whatever authority I may have, that can only be by God and through an
understanding and careful representation of His Word which is my duty and
prayer.
May God bless you as you pursue Him through His word.
- Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Troy Brooks [mailto:t2brooks@telus.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:15 PM
> To: contact@spiritandtruth.org
> Subject: The work set before you
>
>
> You are welcome. My hope in emailing you was to talk to someone who
> should have great authority such as yourself and notice the negative
> consequences of believing what you believe, that is primarily, that,
> if you overassume first rapture, what are the consequences?
>
> Lets say you go through the Tribulation, how will you be of means to
> even realize it since you have already decided in your mind that it is
> not possible. When it happens why would you not take the mark of the
> beast since such a choice before you you assume will never have to be
> made. Do not a a large many folks believe as you do for their emotion?
>
> Do you see at the essence how dangerous and soporofic pre-trib.
> onlyism is?
>
> I would love to have you review the essence, righteousness, and the
> precision of partial rapture and get back to me when you are ready. I
> would love to even hear that you have had a change of mind also, even
> more so, humbly.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Troy