Song Bird
Revelation's 3:10 "Hour of Trial"
cannot be the entire tribulational period because the
Greek word litterally means “Hour” (Hora) The word for
“the” or “that” (mia) also mean “First” or “One” Jesus
used the same Greek word for hour in the olivet discorse
when talking aobut 'that day and hour' The word he used
for “Day” (Hemera) also litterally means -a day. So we
must then conclude that this is litteral hour- the
faithful church escapes. I beleive this hour to the
first hour of the Day of The Lord when we shall be
raptured . Though God's wrath is poured out all through
the Tribuation, it is on the Day of the Lord that he
pours out the finnally of his wrath, and it is The Day
of The Lord that's been repeatedly mentioned through the
Bible as the worse day ever-the day of his wrath etc...
Are you limeting God? How are they to escape to stand before Christ? God can do anything-escape does not mean off the face of the Earth, and the fact that he told us there would be beleivers standing when he returns , means that some people WILL MAKE IT THROUGH THE TRIBULATION. Of course no one prays for for death-We are to pray that we may overcome. We are commanded to watch to know the times and when his coming is near-even at the doors and to pray for stength to endure Also, if we're not watching and praying we possibly won't even know when we are in the Tribulation.
Really Let's look at these two passages plus 1Cor and see how they match up. In 1Thessalonians 4 1.Parousia: greek word for coming. 2.the Lord descends from heaven,(30) 3.with them in the clouds, 4.there’s an archangel present, (31) 5. a shout and trumpet of God, 6. the dead in Christ are raised, 7.we are caught up meet him in the clouds. 8.Coming as Theif(43) In Matthew 24, 1.Parousia :same greek word for coming is used. 2.Jesus appears in Heaven, 3. He’s coming in the clouds, 4. Angels are present, 5. there’s a great sound of a trumpet. 6. ---- 7.Gathering of the elect. 1Corithians 15:52, 1.He’s coming…same greek word, Parousia 2.---- 3.---- 4.---- 5.At the last trump, 6.The dead shall be raised 7.So shall w e ever be with the Lord. When you put them together, you can see that they're all describing the same event. He’s coming once, not twice. 1Corithians is often used parallel with 1Thessalonians to described this secret Rapture (catching away of the saints) before the Tribulation, but, 1Thessalonians, actually has more comparison with Matthew 24 then it does with 1Corinthians. Concerning point 2...ah so we stand before the Son of Man in the air. The throne of God comes down from heaven and is placed on earth. I recall Daniel seeing the Ancient of Days coming down in his throne-right before before slaying the Anti-Christ. No different raptures. Point 3: Again litteraly "Day" and 'Hour". Well, first of all I’d like to say we’re demanded to know when it is near, “even at the doors”, so yes we will know approximately when he will come, but we cannot know the exact moment. Secondly, in Revelation 13 we read in verse 2 that ”the dragon (aka Satan) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.” Two verses later after explaining people worshiping him, we read that” power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.” So, when was this power transfer? From reading this it sounds as if the 1,290 days start at this power transfer. The abomination may happen a few hours afterward, or days afterward. Because the A.C. must have Satan dwelt in him before he exalts himself in the Temple of God. After this verse we’re told “Here is the patience of the Saints” then told of the false prophet who’ll exalt the Beast, and then it is this. So we will not be able to exactly calculate, but know approximately. Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. The wise shall understand…notice they shall also be tried at this time. Mark signifies the secret rapture though we read that BEFORE Christ comes in the clouds the sun will be dark and the moon won't shine?Mark13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Aren't those signs? No secret rapture there. matthew and Luke say the same thing. Matt.24 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Luke21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 1Thess.4 trump is the same trump mentioned in 1Cor15;52. The last trump aka 7th trump in Revelation. Strangly enough at the 7th trump there are also lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Also seen at the 6th seal in Rev.6-which also mentions the sun and moon darkning. These proofs |
Troy's Response:
You said, "Hour of Trial" cannot be the entire tribulational period because the Greek word literally means “Hour” (Hora) The word for “the” or “that” (mia) also mean “First” or “One”. The first or one definite period of time" (Strongs) is indeed one of a kind. Even so, your assumption that this means "first" or "one" is not seen in the lexicon. This is your own construct. You said "also literally means -a day". No. It does not "also" mean a day for it is not specified as such in the lexicon nor the context. Comparing to hemera is another word all together. The day of the Lord is no mere singular day, but it is that which comprises the entire Tribulation since His parousia spans the entire Tribulation and His wrath intensifies going through the Tribulation culminating at the "last trumpet" and the 1260th day of His return, and the 30 days He will use to administer judgment in person. First He comes in a cloud hidden by the cloud at the start of the 7 year Tribulation, only then as He comes on the cloud to step down on the mount of olives in His appearance. To make it all about a day in light of the last week which is also 7 years like the others is to small a thought, to small for God. Parousia has a development fully seen from 6.9-11 to Rev. 11.19.
Yes. Some believers will make it through the Tribulation. That is why the Word uses the terms "alive and left" not redundantly, but because there are some that are left who are also alive from those who were raptured alive before at the start of the Tribulation. Obviously those that are left are alive so this must mean that they were left alive from those that were raptured alive at the start of the Tribulation. Praise God!
God can rapture you at the first rapture, which ONLY HE can do, and is the only way to ensure escaping not just the trial, but the HOUR of trial itself. Otherwise even overcomers in Christ would get caught in the crossfire and be martyred. But the Bible says they may actually be removed from because they have no need to go through the time of testing since they can no longer be hurt by the second death. This is not speaking of physical.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
We don’t know what hour. So this speaks of first rapture. Even Christ does not know when.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Here we know the day “for yourselves know perfectly”. We will be able to even count down the days from the first rapture which we know will be eighty-four 30 day months.
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
We shall all be changed by this “last trumpet”, and it shall be done. This speaks of the “change” and the completion of the raptures and resurrections for the end of this age that commenced at the start of the last week.
In 1 Thess. 4 when combined with 1 Cor. 15.50-52 we see that the trump of God is the last of the 7 trumpets. 1 Cor. 15 speaks of resurrection and change while 1 Thess. 4 speaks of resurrection and rapture.
(1) ”Watch therefore” (v.42). The word “therefore” connects with the preceding verses 40 and 41. Since you are saved and have life, you are expected to watch. Those who lack the Lord’s life cannot watch. The determining factor in rapture is not a being saved or unsaved but is a case of one’s works after regeneration. To say that all regenerated will be raptured together is a serious mistake.
(2) “Your Lord cometh” (v.42). The unsaved do not have the relationship of servant and master with the Lord. Man may misuse this word, but the Lord never will. The unsaved person may consider himself to be a servant of the Lord, but the Lord will not carelessly use such a term as “your Lord” here.
(3) “The thief was coming” (v.43). If a thief comes to steal apples, he will take the ripe ones and leave the unripened ones behind. Thus it is not a difference in kind but one of degree.
(4) The five foolish in the parable of the virgins told of in chapter 25 are not false virgins. They are real, except that they are not wise as are the five wise virgins. The wise ones spare no effort to carry oil in the vessels whereas the foolish are too lazy to make such a provision. Nevertheless, both the wise and the foolish are virgins, and they all go forth to meet the bridegroom.
(5) Judging from typology, those who are left can be the saved as well as those who are taken. Both Enoch (who was raptured) and Noah (who entered the ark) were saved. Yet both Abraham (the intercessor) and Lot (who passed through tribulation) were saved too. Both Elijah (the taken) and Elisha (the left) were saved. The disciples whom the Lord in His ascension left behind were all saved ones. Both Philip (the one taken away) and the eunuch (the one left behind) were saved.
We conclude, therefore, that the “taken” and the “left” in verses 40 and 41 are all saved.
If some misuse 1 Thess. 4 to describe a secret rapture and they are wrong, and it does not refer to a secret rapture, then why use this argument? After all I don’t.
The standing “before the Throne” is not in the air. It is before the throne in heaven just as Rev. 7.9 says, which has not yet come down from heaven yet. Parousia is singular with raptures at the start, martyrs in between, and the “last trumpet” resurrection. The Ancient of Days does come down, first in a cloud, then stepping down on the mount of olives in Person. This first rapture is not a meeting in the air, but a meeting in heaven to the throne (Matt. 24.37,40-41). The throne of God does not come down until His appearing in Person, not before for before, He is still in the cloud. First a lightening in the cloud must commence before the storm. Such is an advanced party as we see harbingers in every sphere.
Since the day and the hour are not a literal day and hour but comprising the whole of the last week, and that the three and half years is the Great Tribulation of 1260 days, therefore, the extra 30 days to the 1290th day is need for Christ to judge the nations, and then 45 more days to set up Israel to receive her glory at the center of all nations to the 1335th day. We do know these days in the 7 year Tribulation for they are easy to calculate and countdown, but for first rapture we do not know the time, nor the hour, and best only the season of the first rapture. Power transfer is given to the Antichrist at the start of the 7 year Tribulation to build the temple, after which time leaves 2300 days, and in the middle of the 7 year Tribulation Satan is finally cast out of heaven at Rev. 9.1 to start the Great Tribulation of the Tribulation.
In Mark 13.26 it says “and then” signifying that after He comes in a cloud secretly to steal the best like a thief, “and then” all shall see His appearing. The powers in heaven are shaken at the start of the Tribulation prior to the 7th seal at the 6th seal in Rev. 6, and then there is a shaking again at the end of the Tribulation as seen at Rev. 11.19. What encapsulates both parts is the major points of the 7 year Tribulation, of which Rev. 12.1-19.21 give its details because John in Rev. 10 is asked to preach again, thus giving the details making this mystery clear to us.