Owner of CTZ Forums Hostile to Watchman Nee
No Valid Reason Given
My hope is that through posting this page, though I am banned from this site, others may come to testify how the owner of CTZ Forums is sinning bearing false witness and that he ought to repent of his sins. Praise the Lord!
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Date of Birth: April 1, 1951 |
Age: 55 |
Gender: A Guy |
Thread: Nee's Writings
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Nee Writings
Nee wrote a lot of materials.
In just casual reading at first it sounds like he might just be saying a lot of things one believes in a different way. But the more one reads it starts becoming obvious there is a huge, mystical, Pentecostal and other non Christian and Biblical issues and beliefs being taught. His online writings are located at Living Stream Ministry. |
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#2
06-25-2006, 11:35 PM
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Re: Nee Writings
It sounds like those that would sin bearing
false witness against Watchman Nee through he
said, she said, and not actually quoting Nee is
a sign of sloppiness and a spirit of
undiscernment.
Remember, Nee treated mysticism as of the emotion, not of the spirit and he did not believe in Pentecostalism since he did not believe tongues was gibberish babble. If you would like to confirm this for yourself read God's Work by Nee. Richard said Watchman Nee did not speak today’s tongues but that neither did he disprove of it either. That is an inaccurate portrayal. When you read his book, God’s Work, the impression you get is that he is using conciliatory irony just as Paul did with the carnal Corinthians who had carried over some practices from the ecstasy of mystery religions (of which there were several) around the region of Corinth. Watchman Nee would use terms like “baby talk” and “kindergarden stage” to describe tongues of Pentecostalism. He said “a church which tries to build itself up by the gifts [which according to man's interpretation includes false tongues of Pentecostalism] will end up being a carnal church always, since it is not God's way for the building up of the church except in the nursery stage”. Watchman Nee believed that tongues meant different languages. Instead of bearing false witness, why not double check your sources of he said, she said? Answers to all known sins bearing false witness are found here, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Misreading.htm Use the search function to find out about anything specifically. And remember Living Stream Ministry does not accurately represent Nee's writings either, for LSM is the cult run by the unregenerate Witness Lee. Watchman Nee was jailed for life in 1953. After that time the Little Flock remained true to Nee's agreement with the Word. They separated themselves from the LSM cult. For a brutal example of altering Nee's writings, go here (Watchman Nee published The Spiritual Man himself), http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Spiritual_Man.htm |
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#3
06-25-2006, 11:46 PM
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Re: Nee Writings
What is this self-proclaimed unspecified
different way? Deeper is not different. It is
better and more accurate is it not? If your
prefer to remain fleshly, no doubt what is
deeper will seem different because it is
different to your understanding of that which is
fleshly and ultimately inaccurate. I know there
is some false teaching in the CTZ forum owner
because to sin bearing false witness has its
hidden subterranean motivation of lack of
humility and some certain false teaching.
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#4
06-25-2006, 11:47 PM
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Re: Nee Writings
Please do not try to draw people off to other
forums to continue a discussion from here.
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#5
06-26-2006, 11:16 AM
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Re: Nee Writings
Parture,
I have read on Nee from many sources, including pro-Nee sites. While you may wish to dispute some points of translation the overall reality of Nee remains the same. He taught a ton that was not Biblical. The main point is he derived thinking and beliefs from non-Biblical sources. And they perverted Biblical truths. The Bible does show us to be beings of flesh, mind and soul. The mind being the 'meeting place' of the flesh and spirit. Before born-again, the flesh is very powerful in our total being. And the Bible does use soul, in many places, to refer to our total being. After born-again, we do not become spirit controlled. The Bible is quite clear the flesh and spirit are at war. And that war plays out in the mind. Neither our flesh or spirits are in complete control. And at resurrection, we are not pure spirit beings. We will once again be beings of spirit and flesh. But they will be in total harmony. So, mistranslation or not. Nee gets it very wrong. |
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#6
06-26-2006, 03:21 PM
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Re: Nee Writings
I don't wish to dispute anything. I am merely
speaking the truth, and will let you repent if
you are willing to receive God's leading in your
life. I do not say all translations at the LSM
cult are inaccurate of Nee's writings, but
certainly some as the one I have given you is a
premier example, and remember Nee published the
white cover himself in English.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Spiritual_Man.htm
Obviously I document this information on my site, because you admit you censor and ban the truth. So what I have done is quite reasonable don't you think? The overall reality of Nee's writings are the same, he remains an uttermost spiritual Christian, and I certainly can't find anyone's writings that are deeper in Christ, nor can you. We can quantify this too with specific teachings that set Nee apart in his accuracy. Suffice it to say, in our reading the Word, him and I agree. Those 5 pinpointeres are: 1) osas arminian, 2) tripartite man, 3) gap restoration, 4) partial rapture, and 5) Biblical locality. Very simple, very true, and proven ad finitum. These teachings expose your teachings. Praise God! Your teaching is non-Biblical, for the Bible says do not sin bearing false witness, and all I have seen is this is what you do. I love being able to see underneath you on this matter. The writings of Nee were derived from the Word of God. It is said, and you can sense it, his writings fit like a glove on the Word (66 books of the Bible-Jesus Christ). If it was not the case you could show otherwise. You are aware many in the west deeply respect Nee's writings, because he was so consecrated, and had great talent. Apparently he had a photographic memory and his IQ was off the charts. That's why you try to sin bearing false witness trying to claim he is forgotten. You'll try to deceive yourself every which way you can. That is the power of your flesh at war with the Spirit. The mind is never confused with the spirit. The mind is of the soul, and of course Nee proves that completely here with verses of Scripture. Your issues are coming forth, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/spiritsoul.htm. We are tripartite. In short, our soul is our mind, will and emotion: self-consciousness. Our spirit has the functions of intuition, communion and conscience: God-consciousness. And our body is our world-consciousness. The flesh is the sin of the body and self of the soul. When God breathed His Spirit into the body from dust, there was created the soul life. Chay is used to describe the fact that what was created was both a soul life and a spirit life: the soulical and the spiritual. The soul therefore, is a composite of our body and spirit. Nee explains this in his writings, which you fail to discern. Take another look. Don't be lazy. Anyone can accuse mindlessly. It's the easiest thing in the world. The bipartite view is of fallen man, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/spiritsoulbody.htmm After being born-again, it is God's desire that the spirit of the believer take pre imminence as the guiding principle by which the believer walks by so that the soul aids the spirit in communion with the Holy Spirit. The battlefield is in the mind where Satan tries to gain a stronghold. The flesh wars against the spirit, but the redemptive design effects the spirit regaining its rightful place in the believer if the believer is willing. Think of the spirit as the mistress, the soul and the steward and the body as the servant. The soul (where the mind is housed) listens to the sensitivity of the spirit's still small voice and inner registrations as the spirit receives from the Holy Spirit God's direction. Your spirit is your inner man and your soul and body comprise your outer man. I do agree with one thing thing you said though, that when you are born-again, you do not become automatically spirit lead for you are still a babe in Christ and are for the most part operating soulically. Your still likely stuck in your mind, will and emotion, and forsaking the intuition and conscience of your spirit. This takes time to overcome. The fact that we have a spirit and are born-again does not mean we are without the mind, will and the emotion, for God wants us to use all our parts. It just means rather that the spirit is to regain its rightful place as 1 Thess. 5.23 says spirit, soul and body in that order. I am always amazed that men of the flesh can be so confused by this basic truth of the dividing of the spirit, soul and body. As Watchman Nee wrote in TSM (CFP white covers): "I am not the first to advocate the teaching of the dividing of spirit and soul. Andrew Murray once said that what the church and individuals have to dread is the inordinate activity of the soul with its power of mind and will. F. B. Meyer declared that had he not known about the dividing of spirit and soul, he could not have imagined what his spiritual life would have been. Many others, such as Otto Stockmayer, Jessie Penn-Lewis, Evan Roberts, Madame Guyon, have given the same testimony. I have used their writings freely since we all have received the same commission from the Lord; therefore I have decided to forego notating their many references." Praise the Lord!! The difference between Nee and you is that Nee can back up what he says, as can I. Watchman Nee never said we are pure spirit beings at resurrection. We still remain spirit, soul and body. Nee believed the new city is a physical city and we will inhabit it physically with our newly resurrected spiritual bodies. There is a wonderful 17 point proof of this fact. Why make this bizarre accusation: "at resurrection, we are not pure spirit beings". Since Nee did not teach this, why argue about it? You're on a tangent. I don't even think you are misreading something somewhere. You seem to just make things up in your hostility and accusations. You never provide a quote. May I say that you seem like you are trying to be cunning and couth with your words since you never provide the source of your accusations. I believe the source therefore must be the evil spirit in your spirit. You get it wrong every time. |
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06-26-2006, 03:17 PM
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Re: Nee Writings
So far I am seeing preaching.
Answer the Biblical question in the one post to get off this bouncing around. There are a couple of things to address here though, on a different level.
Quote:
Quote:
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We believe we are being composed of mind, body and spirit. The spirit and body input into the mind where a decision is made. One problem with your state is that you call soul the mind in all situations. That is erroneous. It also carried the meaning, in a number of uses, of being our complete being, as in working as a unified whole within the world. When we die the flesh is temporarily lost, but the spirit and the mind go on. If damned, in Hell. If saved, in Heaven. But the flesh input portion of the mind is lost until resurrection and glorfication. Then the flesh is restored but purified. Nor is the soul, when used in the context of the mind, the place where the mind is housed. It is the mind when used in that context. Partially flesh and partially spirit.
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Is it a spiritual or flesh body? |
I was banned at this point, so here is my response:
All we are seeing here is preaching and misunderstanding and overassuming from CI. He keeps avoiding the Biblical question presented him which is to prove himself, that if he has a claim against Watchman Nee, surely he can quote Nee saying it to make his case. This is how we ought to treat others as we would like to be treated and not just fling allegations without substance and breaking the commandments of God. For such behavior is not love and truth. Nor should we ban people because of our own sin in this belligerent behavior.
I did not bear false witness, nor did you indicate such. Our being tripartite is spirit, soul and body, not merely mind, body and spirit. Our soul has a will and emotion and a mind that can reason. The spirit of the man does not input into the mind where a decision is made. This is proven by the fact that the mind can make a choice independent of the spirit. The mind of the flesh can war against the spirit and refuse the leading of the spirit in the man by the Holy Spirit. This shows why we need the dividing of our spirit, soul and body so that we can walk after the Spirit and sense the inner registrations of our spirit to do God's will, and not confuse the emotion of our soul with the intuition of our spirit. You don't even make mention of the emotion and the will of our soul because if your stiffness. You focus only on the reasoning of the mind, but it is faulty for you overlook the other components of the soul that are just as important. If we are in harmony with God, we will let the Holy Spirit communicate to the spirit and then what the spirit receives may flow to the soul's mind, will and emotion to make a decision of the will, cleans the mind and renew emotion.
So we see the fallen bipartite teaching of CI, for he rejects that the soul has the functions of mind, will and emotion, thus confusing the functions of the spirit and the soul and not be able to discern like an Andrew Murray. Unwittingly, CI still walks after his soulical self.
You should not misrepresent what I believe. I do not call the soul the mind only. As has been shown through Scripture, the soul has the functions of mind, will and emotion, not just the mind. Again read here for proof...http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/spiritsoul.htm. Your mistake is of course forgetting the will and the emotion which are also components of the soul. When we die the spirit and the soul get saved in Abraham's bosom to be resurrected with a newly clothed spiritual body at the last trumpet. This is a physical body.
The flesh is the sin of the body and the self of the soul. When we die of course the sin of the body is gone since this outer corporeal body will be without blood. Our resurrected body will not have blood in it as Jesus resurrected body did not have blood in it. However, since some believers will lose the reward of reigning during the millennial kingdom, obviously the self of the soul has yet to overcome in outer darkness for believers before the new city commences after the millennial kingdom. The spirit and soul and body live on forever, whether to hell or the new city when heaven and earth come together.
Both the spirit and the soul are resurrected together, not separately. Just as Thomas touched Jesus in the flesh, we too will have resurrected bodies that will reign during the millennial kingdom on earth and afterward in the new city and new earth.
We will always still have a soul with its mind, will and emotion. The mind in the soul is not in the body, nor is it in the spirit. The spirit's functions are much more sensitive with its intuition, communion and conscience, while the outerman of the soul has the functions of mind, will and emotion. The soul is spoken of as being the total man because when God breathed His Spirit into the body from dust there was created the total man. Encased within the soul is the spirit, and in turn is without the body. The soul mediates between the spirit and the body. Like Andrew Murray believed, there is the dividing of the spirit, soul and body that is needed so as to walk after the spirit first and foremost, then the soul, then the body. This is God's ordering. If you don't even know what is of the soul and what is of the body and what is of the spirit, then you will be confused as we have seen.
A resurrected body is a spiritual body just as Jesus' body was a spiritual body which could be physically touched though without the blood. Your problem is not understanding that the physical body resurrected is a spiritual body for it can no longer sin. Only a physical body that is not spiritual can still sin; so we all must die in these bodies of flesh and blood.
The reason we are even having this conversation is because I came to your site and noticed your sins bearing false witness, so I was please to correct you which requires your repentance if you are to overcome these sins of yours.
Troy Brooks