Response to Juliet at FSTDT Regarding the 4 Step Proof for God

I am going to examine all of Juliet's attempt to disprove Step 1. We can do the same with the rest, like in her preface as well. For in the preface it said there can not be a perfect proof because we are not perfect. Having a perfect proof is not unattainable just because we yet have some sin in us. Just because we make mistakes, does not mean 2+2 is not perfectly equal to 4.

For starters, Juliet writes,

"...those civilizations has existed for only a finite amount of time in the infinitely existing universe that would certainly explain the existing sin in the infinite universe."

Any civilization that was created in the past would have approximated the eternity of the past, so none of them would be sinning still due to the exponential progression of our conscience (e.g. child sacrifices are no longer common except in Islam). 

"We could also imagine a universe which has recurring Bangs and Crunches, which cycle for eternity. So that, the reason why sin still exists is because no civilization has ever had a chance to evolve for an infinite period of time."

But this theory fails too, because scientists are agreed there will not be a big crunch. They are convinced the dark energy is pushing out the matter and dark matter at an ever increasing exponential rate. Moreover, even if there was a big crunch this poses no problem because it merely represents another cause and effect from one big bang and crunch to the next from which were were derived. We would already would have made it through one crunch previously if the crunch theory were true; if not, then we were created. There is no indication we would cease to exist then. I think it is reasonable to conclude that if the human race has trillions and trillions of years to exist, our existence is not bound by a crunch but could be overcome through higher plane of consciousness and be transformed in the crunch, but we have not reached such a plane of existence yet, showing then no crunch occurred. But that is all speculation anyway just as much as is saying there is a crunch, since scientists don't believe in the crunch. 

..if Brooks believes in things such as original sin, then he cannot believe by definition that humans could evolve into a sinless state; he can say that we may come closer and closer to a sinless state..."

This is another way of saying we can never become God. I agree. However, it does not mean one cannot reach sinlessness that approximates it to be deemed as sinlessness. Just as if we had been derived from an eternity of the past of cause and effects, we would have been deemed given an eternity to be perfected without sin because of the evidence of the exponential progression in our conscience. 

"A better explanation is by simple appeal to what scientists called the 'Heat Deat'....especially for the purposes of humankind...useless heat."

Since scientists agree that the ever expanding universe will not implode, then the energy remains in that ever expanding universe, and no matter what dissipation occurs, all the original energy still remains in the universe as a whole for humankind to find a way to exist with our spirit, soul and spiritual body. If mankind through transformation would always exist in this universe, then it would be a false assumption to say that mankind could not still exist. To assume useless heat is an assumption that the heat can not be utilized on a finer and finer scale, because no matter how dissipated the universe gets it still exists and that energy can be utilized in somehow even if you don't know how now.

Juliet proposes ways to get around the exponential progression in our conscience.

"no longer exist, as if by killing ourselves off"

Since there is no indication of this happening, it would not be reasonable to assume it. And the Bible says it won't happen. God won't allow it. If  the murder rate per capita is decreasing, then things are going in the opposite direction of Juliet's theory. 

"If anything, we will evolve into a state where we neglect the teachings of the Bible more and more"

This is true of the unsaved for sure who are going to hell, but for the saved, we embrace it more and more. However, even the unsaved will have to fess up to it at some point, because at Great White Throne, they are judged and cast into hell. 

"-  Where at first women could not work outside the home, now they can be CEOs.

-  Where women could not show an inch of skin, women can wear very revealing clothes in public.

- Where pornography was a taboo, its mainstream.

-  Where homosexuality was a criminal offense, it is becoming a major civil rights issue.

-  Where animals were regularly killed and eaten, we may come to recognize their rights as autonomous feeling beings in the future."

That women can be CEO's is an improvement in conscience. Covering up women inordinately is abusive to women, so this has been improved.

Pornography is not mainstream in the hearts of people. Homosexuality is a sin, but free-choice is being allowed so this is an improvement in conscience. Regarding animals, the Bible says there will be no animals at all in the new city and new earth. God makes it so we won't always eat animals.

So we have covered each point and seen how to properly view them. Plus, we still have the exponential improvement in conscience of child sacrifices and the murder rate per capita going down as obvious indicators which Juliet coyly avoids. 

"Noah begins by noting how withing 10 generations, man had become so corrupted that they needed to be destroyed), but its unscriptural. There are no verses in the Bible that indicate humans will evolve into a sinless state."

We must compare floods if we are going to see if there was an improvement. Gen. 1.2 gives us the greatest flood of all, when the earth was made desolate and waste. The flood of Noah's day was a local flood.

Those who are saved will attain sinless with God in the new city and new earth as His sons and daughters. No more of these things remain, because there will be no more sin.

Revelation 21.4, "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (v.5). He overcomes sin, self and Satan. 

"If Brooks believes that we will evolve into sinless beings, then he would be conceding that those humans are sinless like Christ himself (a heresy in Christianity). Moreso, he would be conceding that humans can evolve away the stain of original sin (another heresy), and an impossibility which undermines his proof’s first step altogether."

But, Eph 4:12 reads, "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"

If we are being perfected it is unto perfection without sin.

The Bible says we shall be like Him, not that we will be Him, for only He is Him. This is what it means to be perfected, like Christ, without sin to the glory of God.

The 1st Step of the Proof is not denying the perfect sacrifice of Christ to forgive sins and give power over sin by believers having died on the cross with Christ. What it is merely doing is pointing out an exponential progression conscience which Juliet is unable to disprove. She is in fact trying to disprove it with the Bible, yet this finding does not disagree with the Scriptures. She therefore assumes the Bible is true for her argument whereas the Proof does not first assume the Bible is true or not. Though we discover that it is true because we agree that we are sinners and sin leads to death, but we would not still be sinning by now based on the exponential progression of our conscience. Individually a person still needs to be saved, because the exponential progression in conscience does not happen in a person's lifetime, but across many generations.

Even those who are going to hell will not commit the heinous crimes of the past will still relish in their cunning more subtle ploys, but this is still sin. There is an exponential progression from heinous sin to more subtle sins for the unsaved. Common grace is exponentially shown too for in many areas of society on a per capita basis, there is a civility unlike in the past, e.g. multiple spouses is frowned upon, gladiators to the death is unacceptable, and crime per capita has decreased. The exponential progression in conscience is such that you don't see things like child sacrifices or large segments of the population annihilated in war.

So let this stand as a solid confirmation Step 1 stands.

Troy Brooks