The Absurd Mind of Steve Amato

"There is no fire associated to outer darkness" Troy Brooks "In outer darkness there is no pain and torment" Troy Brooks

But Watchman Nee (of the Local Church) says, "If a person has become a Christian but his hands or feet sin all the time, he will suffer the punishment of the eternal fire in the kingdom of the heavens. He will not suffer this punishment eternally, but will suffer it only in the age of the kingdom" Watchman Nee "The Gospel of God, Volume III"

My Response - Watchman Nee was not of the Local Church. Watchman Nee was of the Little Flock. Witness Lee is the one who started the Local Church.

We have no confirmation of such a writing from The Gospel of God Volume III from LSM as being Watchman Nee's writing, and is unconfirmed from CFP, the authority of Watchman Nee's writings. You have made the common mistake taking Witness Lee's versions of Watchman Nee in which Witness Lee actually added stuff so it would fit with Witness Lee's controlling Local Church mechanism.

To give you a clue about this, if you go over to the LSM website, it shows there is a 2 volume set of the Gospel of God of Watchman Nee and no volume three, which they must have added in later years. They even now keep coming out with new Watchman Nee books.

You have made the same unspiritual discernment of marrying Watchman Nee to the cult of Witness Lee who makes up Watchman Nee stuff. You need to take a deeper look at what is really going on.

You shouldn't be using Satan's material to convict God's children. You should be using God's material in God's children to convict God's children.

You need to do the right thing. Find the same quote from Christian Fellowship Publishers and stop relying on cult information. It makes you no better than the cult itself.

The term is outer darkness. Outer darkness is the place the non-overcomer will be in during the millennium, not the lake of fire. take a look at Nee's notes on Matthew 25.30. Here he says outer darkness has no fire, and explains why.

Gospel of God Volume III ??? What about a Gospel of God volume 8, 9, and 10? When does it ever end with Witness Lee's manipulations especially now Witness Lee's sons who run this organization LSM-LC?

Watchman Nee says Gehenna (hell) is the lake of fire, not the place of Christians in "outer darkness". What Watchman Nee is saying here is that you will be burned by the lake of fire. It is the 1st resurrection that can no longer be hurt by the second death (Rev. 20.4).

Luk 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

This implies that over Christians hell still has some threat and a Christian that does not abide in the Lord, will be cast into the lake of fire and be burned. You need to be able to draw the distinction between burned by the lake of fire in being cast in and the forever perishing in the lake of fire of the unsaved. It is like being scorched or burned. That is why it says next, “and they are burned”. So don’t think that even for Christians being burned is not possible. This is a very spiritual distinction. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Revelation_20.htm

If you make the mistake of thinking it is the same as being thrown in the lake of fire as the unsaved, you are not seeing the meaning of being cast into the lake of fire and being scorched as opposed to permanent residence forever.

What you will find in the Local Church version of Watchman Nee’s additions is harder language in misrepresentations, altering Nee to control its people. Watchman Nee believed the lake of fire was applied to burn off dross from judgment seat, not prolonged through the millennium upon believers. Let us discern this is exactly what the Word of God says.

Steve Amato - So also Watchman Nee says, "If a Christian has any unrepented of and unconfessed sins, which are not forgiven, he will suffer the Gehenna of fire." And he also says "In the coming age, there is still the possibility of forgiveness, but one cannot come out until he pays the last quadrans and clears up everything with his brother." True they were in a book published by LSM as I stated on the web page you allegedly read, and I have no basis to doubt that the "Watchmen Nee" who wrote that book is the same Watchman Nee you're referring to.

My Response - I trust you now have reason to believe that this Watchman Nee from false writings at LSM you project is not the same as the Watchman Nee, the person’s true writings found at Christian Fellowship Publishers. It is odd how men always refer to the cult of LSM for Watchman Nee’s writings and not the authentic source. Since no such writings are found at CFP, the authoritative source, why do you lie on a known cult for your representation?

In outer darkness there is no fire for that is not what outer darkness ever meant. God will apply the function of the lake of fire to the disciplining of the non-overcomers in Christ, but it is not the same thing as being thrown into the lake of fire as the unregenerated. It is for a Christian to take serious consideration that remaining on a bed of fornication has repercussions ithough of being eternally saved. This is how God handles this situation.

If any of this is not now totally clear to you please ask me, because it is very precise and very profitable to get the Word of God right in this matter especially to let go of antinomianism.

Steve Amato - Now if you bothered to actually read the Title of the web page you were commenting on you will notice that it concerned Watchman Nee's local church. It's associated with LSM material which I reference as it quote Nee. So if you're talking about a different "Watchman Nee" with different theological viewpoints, you should have known that. You say, "You should refer to quotes only from CFP", but you made no reference to CFP nor any objection from using the LSM source. So what is "CFP" anyhow? Any why is it that you hadn't mentioned earlier that you didn't believe that Watchman Nee wrote the book that has his name on it as the author?

My Response - I am talking about Watchman Nee, not the misrepresented Watchman Nee at LSM. As a person of God you should be drawing the distinction and not misresenting a Christian. How is that any benefit to other Christians in seek of spiritual food. You would automatically lead people away from the cult of Leeism, and that is good, but at the same time you draw people away from the spiritual also. The fact that you don’t even know what CFP is, is very telling of your approach. You need not ask me what was said before but instead, realize the truth now for yourself. Look forward not backward.

Steve Amato - Thanks for sharing your Martian city idea. That along with the associated calculations reflect how you do Bible study. You read your theological assumptions into the Bible rather than reading out of it. Take heed for it says, "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in

this book." Rev 21:8 It shows the kind of by-products that comes out of your version of "Watchman Nee". But of your "Watchman Nee" you say:

My Response - http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/NewCity.htm f what I said is false, why are you unable to say anything against it except to blame? If Mars will be the place of the new city, why do you reject this? If the new city only has the dimensions to hold about a billion or so resurrected bodies, then why does this offend you? What is your Bible study that makes you reject this? In your rejecting the simplicity of these things, will God not add onto you the plagues described in this book? Even be burnt in the lake of fire. And if unsaved, this being your residence forever. We see therefore why you have mistreated Watchman Nee and made these mistakes about him, for you have not quite got what he is saying and then make the same mistake as the Leeists, being to hard in yourself.

Steve Amato - "Watchman Nee's authority. His mind was vast, not only his IQ was far greater than yours but so was his foreknowledge of our very conversation we are having right now. You need to humble yourself to God's authorities. Watchman Nee read over 3000 Christian books and had a photographic memory and read the Bible at least 10 times more than you do did."

My Response - The reason we have the blood of Christ is because we will literally be accused of the truth. People will literally quote the truth and then blame us for it in which we agree with that truth. Why do these characteristics of Watchman Nee offend you? If they are true, why are you so opposed to the truth?

Steve Amato - So while you put down "schooled" Christians (though I myself never went to seminary and never took Bible course), you exalt this man Watchman Nee because of his alleged high IQ! Oh he read alot of books did he? And who do you suppose wrote those books? And you say with absolute certainty that he read the Bible at least 10 times more than me. Yet another example of your presumptuous nature. In order to know that you would have to know how many times I read the Bible and how many times he had. But then again you do the same thing with the Bible itself - and so also even with Watchman Nee's writings. For example can you prove that Watchman Nee did not write "The Gospel of God volume III" published by LSM? Now as for authority such as that of the apostle Peter I don't look to his IQ, nor to how many books he read. I believe that authority of the Bible along with its authors. But there is nothing in your argument which legitimately affirms this alleged "authority" of your Watchman Nee.

My Response - I am not putting down schooled Christians. I am identifying a real problem, which you have similar traits like you just came out seminary, with schooled Christians in that it all becomes a mental analysis forsaking spiritual reality of and a spirit of wisdom and revelation in how we related to God in all things. I don’t exalt Watchman Nee, but give him due accord as an authority in the body of Christ appropriately. You asked me who wrote the books Watchman Nee read? I don’t understand this strange question. I know Watchman Nee read the Bible at least 10 times more than you did. Watchman Nee said himself he had read the Bible more than 100 times. If you have read the Bible straight through more than 10 times, then call me a liar. There is no presumption in this. It is insightfulness, intuitively knowing given how you read the Bible, that is your lack of carefulness. You need to slow down in your approach. Do not go faster than God desires you to go in life on matters. Don’t get ahead of yourself.

I have not had the time to analyze this mysterious third volume, but you should have done your homework in examining the information first to see if it was authentic before claiming it to be what it is not. I know for a fact that I can find misrepresentations in it either entirely or at least in parts. I have no idea what the source of this book is, but I know the cult LSM and I know what they are up to, but you have not yet been able to make this distinction.

For you to see the authority of Watchman Nee, you need look no further than his writings preserved here. His vast intelligence and IQ and photographic memory merely point to what is revealed in his writings. Many men say just as you say that the Word of God is your point of contact, and though this is true, you must also read the Word of God as it is intended, and that would imply that you do not bear false witness against others as you have done. Such is a common approach, but do not be common. Step above by the grace of God and do not try to defend your rationalizations, but accept what you have done, and make the necessary changes whatever may be the Lord’s will.

I have had these conversations many times before and those that proceed from those, so nothing in our conversation is new, though this may be new exploration for you.

This may help you understand. Picture this. A non-overcoming Christian is disciplined by the lake of fire, even cast in as the terminology of the Bible is used. But then there is outer darkness after that for 1000 years out of the reign of the millennial kingdom, out of the reign of the light of the reward of reigning.

This is how you can relate in your spirit that the outer darkness is not the lake of fire.

In addition to your other beliefs Steve, I will just briefly list them here stating the truth of your mistake assumptions: confusing purgatory for outer darkness; overcomers are not elitists but matured; non-overcomers are not substandard dogs; there is no rapture in the middle of the Tribulation since that defeats the point of escaping the Tribulation; only those who are ready to be received are raptured at 1st rapture; nominal Christians (cloven hooved appearance in Christendom) unsaved not the same thing as carnal Christians who are saved in the parable of the seeds (Matt. 13) or the 10 virgins (Matt. 25) or reigning over 10,5,1 cities parable; and unable to explain what happens to Christians still remaining fleshly, soulish and carnal; not recognizing that not all Christians fit the condition of the 1st resurrection (Rev. 20.4); and a bunch of other stuff, by you get the idea.

steveamato@comcast.net writes Sorry I don't know what you're talking about. I merely presented my analysis of what Watchman Nee actually said. What is your objection? I analyze Nee just as I analyze Lee, so what's your problem? Aren't you willing to question the teachings of Nee just as you do those of Lee? In any case I guess I'll see you on the judgment day and maybe you can explain to God this accusation you have against me.

Another Response - You are a belligerent man. I can't see you as a man of God. You don't not what I am talking about. The problem is your analysis, because you are saying what Watchman Nee did not say. By bringing in your flesh, that is your, poor reasoning, that is the cause of the problem in your spirit. To show you how you point to yourself and not Christ, you speak of yourself as the solution, "I analyze", therefore you say, "what's the problem?". God never asked you to you the purpose of all beings so that when you analyze the world stops spinning, and all ears hear you. God asked you to abide in Him and have His reasoning, not your own method of analyzing. Here is another mistaken assumption in your heart, "Aren't you willing to question the teachings of Nee?" Why would you think I don't question his writings as I would any writing I read? This is an excuse in brain. To show you how you are being selfish, which seems so bad, that maybe I won't see you at judgment seat, notice that when I first emailed you and outlined the problem in your mind's reasoning, and then you come back responding blankly, "I don't know what you are talking about" and "explain to God this accusation you have against me." Why don't you read what was said to you so that you do understand? It is clear enough a babe in Christ could understand. I have not accused you of anything, but merely stated the truth of your mistaken assumptions that you don't want to see. You don't want to see yourself as you truly are.

Purgatory as promoted by the Roman Catholic Church commences, in its view, at the time of death; and indulgence is promised by the Church through the Mass and other means. To this thought we vigorously object. Nevertheless, we cannot use heresy, either, to oppose the fact that Christians may receive punishment. We can only rely on the Scriptures to prove that the Matthew passage before us has reference to the judgment-seat of Christ. (King and the Kingdom of Heaven)

If you want to bear false witness against someone that is your own choice, but ask yourself are you really being a Christian? Of course not. That is why I say to you, get a conscience. Did Watchman Nee say these things? Nope. You know something is not quite right in a person when you post this on your site, http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/wnee.html and when you compare it to this information, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Richard_Fisher.htm you just know something is wrong in your heart along with Richard Fisher's unregenerated heart. We can be certain about this when someone can be so wrong so often, his conscience is totally seared. Did Watchman Nee say these things? Nope. You still post this, http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/wnee.html It makes one think that in your spirit maybe you don't have the Holy Spirit or if you do you are an extremely carnal Christian and have much to overcome. The other observation is having no idea what separate rapture is, so that when you compare what you have written here, http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/lcx2.html with what is written here, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Partial_rapture.htm one again must conclude at best you are a carnal Christian or still unregenerated.

This is what I have noticed. Many things you say are very true about the Witness Lee cult, but you have no humility when it comes to Watchman Nee as you marry Nee to Lee mindlessly and for this again, we must conclude either you are not in the church or at best you are still a babe in Christ since Watchman Nee was one of the uttermost spiritual Christians that ever lived; in fact I can think of no other equal in spiritual fortitude since Bible times. Since Watchman Nee had not any mistakes in his writings at CFP, we must conclude your understanding is hindered. Clearly God has a way of dealing with those Christians still lying on a bed of fornication, but what you provide and your understanding of how that works is stifled and unspiritual. What other fair conclusion can be derived except this one.

Your central problem is you are antinomian because you don't see how God deals with those who lie a bed of fornication who are carnal non-overcoming Christians, therefore you live in easy and lazy-believism as we have seen through your belligerency. If you are a Christian I have not seen it in you yet. I think you know your own belligerency. Perhaps the best words I can garner that depict the truth to you is "get thee hence." Praise God! For His words are powerful. Your insistence you don't think you are doing anything wrong is the self of the soul and the sin of the body.